Adding trellis to stop neighbour intrusion

[RosesAreRed85]

I live in a 4 in a block. I'm top floor and my garden (private) is the one shown on the left of the photo, surrounded by the fence. Neighbour is beneath and the window shown is her bedroom window. Both fences are mine, previous owner paid for them and for them to be erected.

I get on well enough with downstairs neighbour however the issue is that every time I go out to the garden, she comes out and chats, for a good half hour. She's elderly and I get that she just wants to chat, I have no problem with a short chat now and then, but last time I was out there, I had a whole day free when DC was at their dads and so wanted to get cracking on the garden, she came out 5 separate times, 3 times to chat for ages and will sometimes stand watching me from her bedroom window, which is a little awkward.

I'm not sure if it would be unreaonable of me to heighten the fence a little to give me privacy? I don't want to completely block her light, just her view into my garden! I was thinking of popping a trellis on top, so that light still gets through. Maybe pop some climbing flowers on it. The taller fence that can be seen is 6ft tall, i was thinking of matching the trellis height to this. Local planning permission dictates 6ft 6 inches is the limit that you can have fences, so I don't think I would be breaking any local laws. I'm sure she will complain as she's quite fixed on how she thinks things should be, so I'm not sure if it's unreasonable of me to do this?

There are two windows in the photo- is this the back of her house?
Is one window a kitchen and the other a bathroom or a bedroom?

The bit I don't get is you bought a flat with a very overlooked garden, regardless of an elderly lonely woman who wants to chat.

Anyone living in her flat can walk along the side entrance- is that a back door? - and will be several feet above your garden, looking down on you.

If you've lived there for some time, why didn't you anticipate lack of privacy from the word GO or why buy the flat in the first place? You do not have any privacy unless you planted trees or large shrubs and you may come up against blocking light, [loss of amenity] although there is no 'right to light' in terms of house extensions.

Yes I could have.

Are you commenting on all the other posters who have added links? Or was it just mine?

Just yours so far. Okay? :) You apologised for the lengthy link.

Yes, which also seems to have a corner balcony, I reckon the blocks are symmetrical.

yup isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

I had same set up with a 1st floor flat I lived in some years ago. I put a 6ft fence with back gate directly outside ground floor flat. Gate was there as path outside ground floor was shared access as I’m sure yours will be.

It was actually my neighbours suggestion to put up high fence, I was no gardener and so it looked quite unkempt compared to hers. When I mentioned it may block her light she said the balcony above her window already did this so wouldn’t make much difference to light.

If her bedroom is not directly below your balcony as my neighbours was, I don’t really think blocking light in a bedroom is great problem as most like to sleep in darkness. It would be a different matter if it was her living room in which light was blocked throughout the day.

Really?

Not hindsight.

It's hardly hindsight when you're standing in the garden thinking of buying a home and the neighbours' windows are staring you in the face.

It'll be chucking it down and freezing soon so problem solved for 6mths!

But what can she do about that now?

but the neighbour might have been a private person and not a chatterer

Exactly. Surely when buying one of the first things you think about is privacy and is it overlooked. If it's all you can afford and it's otherwise fine the right location etc you take the hit of no privacy and put headphones on. I bet the neighbour hates kids playing in a garden on trampolines feet from her window but what can you do.

It's just being neighbours op until you can afford detached with a private garden.

She will have staircase leading from balcony above directly into her own garden. The photo in first post could have been taken on her staircase or from the area where staircase is.

I thonk a washing line as a pp suggested- ok you lose some space but every now and then gain privacy for a few hours. If you put it on the diagonal then it wont look so obvious- hang a few towels on it, proper it up with a forked stick and youre there!

Would you consider a small tree like an Amelanchier lamarkeii? You can get them multistem and they are quite airy and open, have blossom and lovely leaves and berries in autumn and don’t grow too big. You could put one in to give you some privacy? I don’t think it would block the light overly much. They don’t cause subsidence and trees can lower the temp around them quite significantly so she might appreciate it in the height of summer.

Put headphones on.

Headphones don't help her with her neighbour standing and staring, nor with when she wants to be spending time with her DS and the neighbour comes out and interrupts.

It is an overlooked garden, but if the neighbour treated that normally OP would be quite happy with things. It's the neighbour treating OP and her garden as a pass time that's causing the issues.

Everyone aghast at 'oh but you can't block out her view' - she is not entitled to a view of someone else's garden!

She's entitled to and has a right to light though. if the garden was divided in this way when the flats were built, I'd be surprised if there isn't some specific covenant preventing her window from being blocked.

This is so childish to not even speak to this woman about it. She has no idea there is an issue because the OP hasn't said a word.

Like I said, in terms of a whole year, it is obvious that the OP will be in the garden for far less hours than it is empty. It is disproportionate to block or restrict someone's light 24/7 just because you aren't adult enough to ask them to please give you a bit of space when you are gardening and that you find it uncomfortable for them to stand watching you.

All the more so when that looks like a miserable concrete place to live with a tiny window. Even a trellis will really restrict light coming in.

First step is to speak to her which may resolve the issue or just write her a note if you really can't manage it.

Or not buy somewhere with such a stupid layout if you really want a private garden.

I'm aware it was sarcasm. However she wasn't being sarcastic in a jokey way, she was being rude and cutting. Read the room.

Yes this. Sunglasses and sunhat to obscure your face so it's reasonable that you can't hear or see her.

Do you have anyone you can have with you a few times in a row to try and break her habit of talking to you (assuming she doesn't talk to you if you're busy with someone else?)

A yapping dog would also work 😂

What about something like this? You could angle it in front of her window, but not TOUCHING the fence. OR you could put it in front of her garden area. Won't block light and you could grow some nice creepers up it and over the top. Adding a bench and table underneath would make it look more as if it's a shelter for you than to specifically block her.

She refers to the previous owner having installed the fences, which suggests OP is the current owner. It would be unlikely she would be able to put up fences etc without landlord permission if she didn't own it.

or not buy somewhere with such a stupid layout if it's so important to you have a view?

Why is OP liable for her 'stupid' purchasing decisions (love the barely disguised snobbery btw, I'm sure she had the option of choosing between a 4 bed detached and this flat and chose the later for shits and giggles, rather than because it was the best option available), but not the neighbour?

Loads of sympathy from me. I used to have a neighbour who would just chat forever.

I felt like a monster because it was clear she was lonely but I was incredibly busy and overwhelmed at the time and just wanted her to leave me in peace.

I don’t know about blocking her view but definitely you need to find a way to get across that you aren’t in the garden for her entertainment.

or not buy somewhere with such a stupid layout if it's so important to you have a view?

That hideous little fenced in garden is not "a view" by any stretch! The issue is light here and there is a legal right to light. The downstairs purchaser would be legally entitled to expect her light will not be interfered with.

The OP is the one saying a private garden is important to her so it makes no sense to buy one like this that is not private and very strangely laid out. The purchaser of a garden like that knows it is overlooked. That isn't the issue here though anyway. The issue is the downstairs dwellers behaviour which OP has not addressed with her.

This thread has been such an eye-opener to me, the number of people who think it’s completely normal to take the nuclear option rather than indicating to someone that you don’t have time to talk.

No wonder so many people are so unhappy, going about their lives getting upset that others aren’t reading their minds.

GL OP! I’m off 👋