Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

Have you spoken in depth to your sons about the fact women have to change their behavior daily to accommodate men’s hatred of them.

what did they say?

When 1 in 4 men are raked by in women come back to us in that one.

I don’t hate dogs, but I am wary of ones I don’t know which appear aggressive…..

Ignoring patterns of behaviour and statistics doesn’t make you a humanitarian and prevents safeguarding and sensible risk assessment. These measures are not a slight upon your male babies, but a rational response to risk.

Well said

How many men a week are killed by their female partner or ex partners…

How many men have to adapt their behaviour on a daily basis to keep themselves safe from women?

How many men are discriminated against in the workplace just for being men?

Your sons might be lovely (mine certainly is) but that doesn’t detract from the fact that the behaviour of men has made, and continues to make, my life more difficult and traumatic.

No, because like most men, they don't hate women. Try to think about how insane and ridiculous you sound. I actually don't think you can be a real person.

Anyone who calls women females…

Luckily for women I think few men have ever perceived marriage as a benefit to them (even if on paper it is) so I don't think we need to worry too much about men pressuring women into marriage and children. So luckily for all concerned openness about how women perceive men will help women avoid the drudgery of domestic life and the inconvenience of living with a man. It's good for everyone.

Both sexes can enjoy the benefits of being in relationships without the hassle and bother of marriage and kids, so again it's win-win. (More so for the women if you are right.)

In terms of this thread the point is open-ness. If men can read up on what women really think in their owns words they can make their own judgement from a better informed standpoint which is good for everyone.

Taking your point if men are the main beneficiaries of marriage and children then they can see how miserable marriage and children makes women and let women off the hook. No man would want to inflict the mental load etc on someone else.

I am sorry that you life has been made traumatic by men.

Mine has not but I wouldn't be around any man for 1 second who made my life that way.

Raked? I think you mean raped? A very rare thing to happen. I actually don't know anyone who has been raped. I DO know a person who lied about someone raping her and almost ruined his life. Admitted she lied just before going into the court for the trial.

I dislike the unacceptable behaviour of individuals or groups of individuals. Unfortunately, all too often, it is the violent and aggressive behaviour of men towards other people which influences that view.

Also are there any countries in the world that stop women being able to drive, go out without a woman chaperoning them, working, receiving medical care, having access to justice, having a bank account or even being able to speak in the streets.

It may not happen here but it challenges how you see relationships between men and women and how far some men will go to marginalise women in society. We have to push back and maintain our boundaries and support each other because these men walk amongst us. (Cough, Andrew Tate).

That doesn’t mean all men are awful and all women are wonderful,

So you’ve never had to change your behaviour because of men?

It’s quite insulting to suggest you’re better than the silly women who put themselves in a situation where they’re abused , harassed or just made to feel uncomfortable by a man.

I was raped so violently and humiliated so much as part of that rape that I can’t describe it on here.

It is deleted as it’s too upsetting for other people to read.

I don't know of one really good man. As in an amazing partner, father, ethically and morally good. I do know of many women in this category. I think when men are applauded for cooking, cleaning, taking care of their children so openly, yet women are expected to - we need to change the narrative. Women are tired of men and that's why there is an uprise against the patriarchy. Women are tired of being told to dress accordingly to avoid being raped, we are tired of fearing being murdered if we are out late, we are tired of being haggled by men shouting lewd comments, we are tired of being sworn at if we aren't interested or being touched when we haven't consented, we are tired of societies expectation for us to be mothers who stay at home but also work, clean the house but also work out and stay slim, are sexy but also motherly, we are tired of being in violent relationships, coerced, then taken to family court when we don't trust our abusers with our children because they are violent, abusive men. So maybe this tiredness turns to frustration and we see we are all living similar lives and we think is the a male issue and then the men don't change but blame feminism for our want for equality, our want to change the burdens passed down from our mothers and grandmother's. So yes, maybe we have a right to hate men for not changing to make us become an equal to them as it does not benefit them.

And as to changing my behaviour? I was raped by a stalker in my own home. I wasn’t even anywhere “dangerous”. I wasn’t walking home on my own. It wasn’t in a dark alley.

I hope you’re right that it’s rare but I think not sadly. In my very comfortable middle class life I’ve been sexually assaulted, harassed in the street on several occasions and once struck by random man completely unprovoked , sexually harassed at work etc. I extrapolate from that that it’s not uncommon particularly for less sheltered women.

More recently - because I’m old now - I was horrified by revelations from young women on work night out about frequency of choking or other non consensual sexual activity in their and friends relationships now presumably due to the prevalence of misogynistic and violent porn. Things have not improved.

1 in 4 women is not very rare.
And that’s not including the percentage of women who’ve experienced sexual harassment. The statistics suggest that 97% of young women experience some form of sexual harassment.

No. You don’t know anyone who has told you they’ve been raped. TBH I wouldn’t tell you if it had happened to me either.

However I have been sexually assaulted several times in the street wearing very modest clothing. I’ve been harassed by men countless times. I’ve had men exposing themselves a number of times. But I have never, ever felt physically threatened by a woman. It’s not rare at all and I have met several women who have told me there stories and it has ruined their lives.

I’m so sorry.

I believe you and I wish it hadn’t happened to you. Sending gentle hugs.

I was sexually harassed in a bar last weekend. It was a Sunday afternoon in a family friendly pub.
He came up to me from behind while I was stood at the bar and I had no opportunity to remove myself before it happened. @WildGarlicSouphow does your suggestion of not being around men like that for 1 second work in that situation?

A good marriage is beneficial to women during the years they may wish to have and raise children. May men want children too so go quite happily into the arrangement.
Where things change is in later years when the balance shifts and women have greater independence, no longer need a co parent etc. Women in middle age are less likely to slow down than men and a man can become a bit of a drag.
If the man wants to retain his relationship through these years, (and we know that being alone in later years is disadvantageous to men who are more likely to suffer isolation, depression, health issues and addictions than men in relationships) then he needs to have built a strong foundation of reciprocal input and loyalty with his partner.
Basically, if he's rubbish when he should be useful he can't expect the care and companionship he needs when he's less so. So it's absolutely in his interests to learn what he needs to do to be considered worthy of a woman's long term investment and compromise.

Misogyny is not limited to violent crime.
1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetime.
99% of women will experience misogyny every day.

1. Man spreading on the train
2. Being talked over in meetings at work
3. Doing most of the menial tasks at home despite working the same hours
4. Changing our running routes to avoid woodland where there might be potential for sexual assault
5. Getting a cab late a night when we’d rather walk if it weren’t for the risk of men and sexually assault
6. teaching our DD’s to never leave their drink unattended in case men spike it to sexually assault them
7. Getting only 1% of all budgets for our sports whilst men get 99% in of all global investment in theirs
8. Having to take medication doses tested and produced at the perfect dose for the size of the average male
9. Men earning more than women doing the equivalent work
10. Millions of online rape threats towards women in prominent positions by men. Not excluding murders of female politicians simply because they a were female and outspoken.

Its all misogyny

In the 90’s I was regularly asked to leave work do’s early so the men could go to strip joints. This was normal!

@WildGarlicSoup

How can you read this and think that most men don’t hate women.

If I met your sons on the street how would I know that they don’t hate women? Or would it be prudent of me to safeguard myself because statistically I know men as a class, are dangerous.

That’s what we’re talking about. Stop being offended on behalf of your sons. If they’re as good as you say they are they’ll understand where women are coming from.

Dd is 14. On a bus ride home in broad daylight, she and friends were sitting near the back.
A bloke ("about dad's age", so 50s) decided that, in spite the of the bus being almost empty, he would go and sit next to her friend.

It's shit like this that pisses us off. His employer's name was emblazoned on his polo shirt, so clearly he didn't give a fuck what he was doing or that he'd be called out for his, at best, creepy behaviour. And I bet he says he doesn't hate women.