Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

I don’t hate men because they’re men. I can’t stand them because every single one of them I’ve ever met has been disappointing in one way or another and the women I meet are far from disappointing. They should be more emotionally mature, less useless, more thoughtful, and maybe I would be able to stand them a bit more.

Again for the hard of comprehension, it's not hating men it's hating mens behaviour.

Rarely are there posts from women who state that they just hate their husband even though he's a brilliant person, they're posting about shitty, nasty behaviour and what can they do about it. The fact that women are even posting about the behaviour of their partners and what she can do about shows the level of care. Yes some posters will reply with comments that seem nasty towards men but this is generally coming from a place of their own encounters with mens shitty behaviour.

It's always the behaviour, NOT just the man

All the men in our family are lovely. We have long marriages, the men are ‘hands on’ dads and we enjoy equal partnerships.

But I still recognise that men commit most of the violent and sexual crime - and casual misogyny and patriarchal ideology is dominant. This isn’t helped by the sheer amount of newcomers to this country that carry deeply ingrained misogynistic cultural beliefs.

What, “as a mother of sons” is wrong with acknowledging that? If you and their father has raised them well, you don’t need to be defensive.

Men aren't even being treated the way women are, or losing any privilege. Yet they're already moaning because women are treating them less like gods.

Poor them 🎻

FWIW, OP and fellow man-worshippers, it is all men, or damn near all. So few will say anything or intervene when other men behave badly. That means they're either bad actors or collaborators.

Exactly this.
I’m going out to a gig in a club on my own tonight. I’ve had to consider where I’ll get dropped off, the safest place to get a taxi home, what I’m wearing, what footwear to wear so I’m not vulnerable in heels, what I’m going to drink and be weary of drink spiking…

All because of men.

I also have a son who I’m raising to treat women with respect. Having a son doesn’t mean I can’t also understand that men pose a threat to women. It doesn’t mean that I don’t see the widespread misogynistic behaviour carried out by men on a daily basis.

It's all about awareness.

Aware that most violence and issues in society are caused by men. Not all men but mostly men.

I can also acknowledge that the worst people I have met in life have been women. I've never had an issue with a man. I'm clearly very fortunate.

Broadly men are more problematic. In my experience women are more problematic

Absolutely. Poorly brought up boys result in disappointing male behaviour. My ex was brought up in a violent home with multigenerational trauma playing a part. I thought I could change his poor behaviour. I could not and the relationship ended. I understand why so many men are disappointing and with most men in my circle I get along fine. However, it’s not misandry to call out a man’s behaviour when he’s being a dick. It won’t change anything, but it needs to be said.

One of my dds is 22. Last night she was going on a first date. I heard her talking on FaceTime to a friend and they were saying what she would do if she needed the toilet and had to leave her drink unattended and where she would park so she could get in the car and still be seen from inside the restaurant. That’s the world my daughter is in, where instead of looking forward to an evening out, she’s discussing how not to get attacked. The mothers of boys should be bringing their boys up better so that my daughter isn’t having those conversation before a date.

The very first time she went to a party, the friend she was with was raped by a stranger. DD and the friend were 19 and he was 16. He followed her when she went to get something from her coat which was in a downstairs game room, pushed her down and raped.
her.

She also found a friend collapsed in a nightclub as she had been spiked by a needle. She had to get a bouncer to carry the friend to a taxi and take her to hospital and call the girls parents.

I see OP has plopped and run. Typical.

But no. Mumsnet is not misandrist, it's just one of very few places online where men are actually judged fairly for their behaviour.

Misandry isn't a balancing of the scales anyway. It is not the equal opposite to misogyny.
No man is harmed by women on MN stating they hate men because of their experiences of harmful male behaviour. Women are harmed, raped, oppressed and murdered due to misogyny.
I have never seen anything on MN that could be classed as hate speech against men. I have seen no one urging that we harass and hurt them. I have seen only comments discussing evidenced patterns of problem male behaviour and some women stating they avoid men. Note, avoid, not harm.
If you've seen examples of inciting violence, hostility or threat against men on MN then you need to report it.

OP hasn't been on MN long or they would know quite a few posters are men. Or used to be at any rate.

How do we know that men hate women? M'mmmm - there's stalking, cat calling, harassment, rapes - including taharrush gamea, rape culture (what was she wearing?), child brides, stoning for 'adultery', drugging in order to rape, deciding that they only need one eye to cross the road, and on and on. There's no bloody end to it. This is how men who hate women behave.

Let's suppose there are women who hate men. How do they behave? Well, generally they will have as little to do with men as possible - they'll use female doctors, dentists, professionals; they may not fancy dating men. Some of their significant others may be cats or dogs! And now and then they write into Mumsnet. There are no roving bands of women harming or killing men. They don't drug men and mistreat them. They simply give them a swerve when it's possible.

So all this 'wah, wah, there are nasty women who hate men!' So what!

As a ‘mother of sons’ I have no issue with misogyny and abuse being called out. I also don’t see anyone on here calling for men to be raped, murdered or to have fewer human rights than women, which would be the equivalent of the misogyny of the manosphere.

From reading MN and from being flamed on other women-only groups by women who can't read or who project and jump to huge assumptions in saying nasty things... I could leap to making some awful statements about women too.

I don't extol in such negativity about females because I'm not a hugely negative person., But if I were... People on here love to moan, and men are easy targets to moan about.

There are very loud and misandrist voice on MN. I warn anyone who wants to come to this site about that.

Excellent point.
The older I get the less I want to deal with men.
I have a handful of men I know who are bloody brilliant but other than those … nah I’ll avoid if I can.

This is because of my experiences of men throughout my life. From every day sexism right through to DV and murder.

But my opinions and actions don’t harm men in anyway. I just get on with my life.
Yet men who don’t like women don’t seem to be able to do it quietly. They threaten them, they abuse them, and they petition to remove their rights.

Female what @lljkk ? Do you mean female humans? I'm sure there is a noun for them. 🧐

They start wars and kill women and children (and other men). Yeah, there are some good ones, but if it looks like a duck….

I'm guessing what might stop vawg is the good men, in enough numbers, shunning them, calling them out, actively confronting them etc.
Yet what we have are appalling statistics for women who have suffered at the hands of men. We have a police force that are not to be trusted and a criminal justice system that effectively gives violent, especially sexually violent, men the green flag.
And look at all the creatures coming out of the woodwork wanting to vote for Farage and doing away with the Equality Act.
Women are angry and that's OK.

lol misandry leads to women moaning about men.
misogny leads to rape and murder.
its like saying poc are being racist to whites. It’s not the same thing.

I don’t hate men, I’m just very aware of who and what they can be.

I don’t think k there is misandry amongst most women on Mumsnet. I do think people complain about their partners and their family relationships, including with men. Thats unsurprising, given the site.

I'd also add, as a mother of sons you will be doing them a great disservice if you buy into the 'men are victims' narrative.
There are quite enough angry young men out there who are being taught that women hate them and are intent on doing them wrong. These young men often end up prey to misogynists seeking converts and become just the sort of men women do avoid.
If you want to help your sons, talk to them about why some women fear and avoid men. Make sure they understand the sheer scale of the problems caused by misogyny. They will have already seen men behaving in these ways so they'll know it happens. Encourage then to empathise with the impact that has on women. Teach them that they're not the centre of everything and that comments about male behaviour are not an attack on them personally if they don't behave that way.
Explain that bad male behaviour is a threat to them as well as to women and that its important and necessary that we discuss it.
I'm also a mother of sons and this approach served us well.

Not sure what this has to do with my post. In my experience most women are a lot more forgiving and naive about men than men are. Most men are pretty realistic about their sex.

I love the men and women in my life but that doesn't mean they don't have flaws.

You do sound quite negative about 'females' especially for someone who gets involved with women only groups. They are really easy to avoid.

As the mother of 2 lovely young men and a young dd, i do worry about dd. She goes to 3 martial arts classes pw because the violence against women/girls is ever increasing.

Can you give an example of the misandry you’ve seen?