Misandry and Mumsnet

[estrogone]

Is it acceptable to hate on men openly without apology? Would it be ok of it were the other way round.

As a woman and mother of sons, the attitudes and comments on MN border on hate speech and I think Mumsnet HQ should do something about it.

Is this really how we want to balance the scales?

E: spelling

I think the sexism in each direction is the opposite side of the same coin. Dislike or hatred for an entire demographic.

On here the root is often a personal abusive experience but it doesn't have to be. ( For both types of sexism..)

How can they be the opposite side of the same coin when the root cause and outcomes are so different?

Misogyny isn’t caused by the systemic oppression and abuse of men by women. And Misandry doesn’t result in two men a week being killed by women or 97% of young men experiencing harassment at the hands of women.
To treat them the same is to minimise the actual, physical harm caused by misogyny.

@MickyMoonshine cause and outcomes don't need to be the same to my mind. Why should they be? I don't think that I minimise the result of either one and I don't enjoy reading examples of either.

Because one kills people and results in systemic oppression.
One doesn’t even come close.

@MickyMoonshine Sexism is one of many things that kill people.

Kills women, not people, it kills women.

It also means women are raped, assaulted, and systematically disadvantaged.

@MickyMoonshine women are people.

Much as I've enjoyed this, I'm off now. I may check back later

I’m still baffled by the “frequent misandry posted on Mumsnet”. WHERE????

It’s important to make distinction based on sex when discussing sex based violence. Otherwise you could end up under the misapprehension that women commit the same level of violent crime as men. Which is categorically untrue.

This is a very good point.

Some women are far stronger than other women but they are not killing them.

My teenage daughter hasn't been able to avoid seeing some of the violent hatred spewed against women online, let alone all the casual sexist comments under nearly every tweet/post/article. I'm sure your son would cope with a few grumpy references on mumsnet to someone's 'man child' not loading the dishwasher. He isn't going to see graphic rape threats against men on here, or death threats or discussions about spiking drinks.

Instead of worrying about something as harmless as mumsnet, just hope your son isn't a victim of male violence. Pretty much everyone I know has been at some point in their lives.

I agree the root cause is misogyny. My exh was abusive, he was not prosecuted. I have come across some men who seemed genuinely lovely, so I’m not saying there are not some good men. At one point I broke down crying after speaking to a lovely male in every day life, which just speaks volumes of what women have to contend with. My son was terrified of becoming like his dad, fortunately he is quite the opposite. Boys need good male role models in their life, if absent the closest caregiver needs to guide them away from misogyny. My daughter is only 13yrs old and already I am teaching her how to keep safe from the male population. In turn I will never date or live with a man again, I just can’t take the risk for myself and my kids.

I'm sorry to hear that.
So ridiculous the twisting and turning people are doing to pretend women bring misogyny on ourselves with our supposed 'misandry'.
Women who fear, mistrust and avoid men were not born that way. The vast majority once entered relationships in hope, trust and optimism and have had it crushed out of them. Misogynists create what people like to call 'misandrists' no question about it. They also create more misogynists by poisoning impressionable men against women.

And misogyny feeds misandry, with far more reason and far more reality. Women are not going round in armed gangs anywhere sexually assaulting and being violent to men, to the point of murder and torture. We haven’t done so since the beginning of civilization. Men in contrast do so routinely.

I’m sick of the excuses for male behaviour. They are a problem.

There is cause for misogyny-when more that 90% of violent crime is committed by women, when 2 men a week are murdered by women and men plan their lives around protecting themselves from women then there will be equal cause for misandry.

Quite. ‘If men had to put up with xxxx’ is always a good touchstone. And if men were subject to the violence women are, they would be considering themselves at war.

I do wish sometimes that women were better at organising themselves and had the access to weapons that men do! Certainly looking at Afghanistan.

Misandry is a feeling. Misogyny is a feeling plus actions.

Women are worse than men at organising themselves? And have lesser access to weapons?

Why do you only respond to comments which involve women having the ability to fight back?

We don’t form armies do we? Nor the kind of tribal mobs you see coming out of football matches.

I’ve been accused of being a man on here more than once. Because I don’t immediately jump to LTB.

Lots of men are awful, but lots aren’t awful too. I am one of the parents that has raised a good man who would not lay a finger on a woman, coerce or control, belittle.

The times I have been accused of being a man is when I have stood up for them when they’ve clearly needed help with their mental health due to depression and anxiety etc. I’ve found that there are some people who hate all men and will never allow them to be in a tough place, even when they’re asking for support.

I also know that before seeking help for a mental health issue, I treated my husband poorly at times. Not abusive or anything, but I have made mean comments or raised my voice, and I shouldn’t have. But my husband has supported me and helped me to get better. If it were a man who was struggling with their temper and had said some mean things then I would be told to leave him rather than to support him like he did with me…it’s just odd.

But underneath it all, the problem remains that there are far too many bad men. And we need to make sure we support women to get away from them. Unfortunately that can mean that the hate gets out of hand on here…I wish it didn’t

Which isn't what was said. What was said was "I do wish sometimes that women were better at organising themselves".

We are excellent at organising ourselves. Every single right and protection we have has resulted from this. Its just that when we organise we do it to improve things for ourselves and each other, not to hurt men. Which makes the accusations of misandry, when all we're doing is discussing our safety and wellbeing and the men who compromise it all the more galling.

👏👏👏👏

Same here if you don't automatically agree with the hate you get accused of being a man