Labour isn't Working - Thread 37

[NoWordForFluffy]

In Nuthatch's absence, I've been asked to start the new thread!

A chat thread for those of us who don't like this Labour government.

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."

Previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5548208-labour-isnt-working-thread-36?page=1

Yeh I agree, but its obviously happening, hence this proposal. Madness.

Its the top story in The Times

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8bb0a411-e956-4c87-888d-cb1a31cfe13b?shareToken=41f379d8de0f35200beed2d6a6a9be13

I think people would get behind this if it actually happened, if there was a cohesive and comprehensive plan to ensure people were doing something productive, either environmentally or socially.

I suspect there would be so many exemptions declared between announcement and execution it would be almost entirely ineffective.

Labour has no appetite for any kind of temporary discomfort for their tribe as it might give them options that don’t involve perpetual gratitude to the party. Like dysfunctional parents who assume they know best and don’t want their kids spreading their wings in case they move more than two streets away.

I would be 100% supportive of this or something similar. Labour supporters not so much. They will see it as exploitative. If the tories suggested it, it would be labelled as slave labour.

But only for the 50% of families on benefits.

Yet more hidden redistribution.

it is obscene.

Yep. Burnham starting as he means to go on.

I feel like benefits act as this gateway to way more further benefits, discounts, top-ups and free stuff.
Families just above the threshold must be so much worse off in real terms.

I think this is all a lot of distraction. Labour won’t want to implement anything to upset their tribe too near election time so most likely none of this will ever happen.

If they paid that £4500 to all apprentices, then not only would that actually be fair... and stop encouraging people to limit their work to stay on benefits... but if it encouraged more high achievers into apprenticeships (£4.5k is a reasonable amount to an 18 year old, especially added to no student debt) then it might actually increase the prestige of that career path as they say they want.

But no, no - money can only be given to Labour's favourite people.

And only taken from the evil ones, who are actually financing everything.

This isn't a society.

" Who can we tax in order to pay benefits to others"

They don't break it down that much. It's a pie chart. Education is 35%. They haven't reported police figures for a long time. Fire service I know has been cut to the bone down to the marrow. Stations closed, engines and other equipment located miles away.

You'd need a FOI to find out anything more.

The youth opportunities programme in the early 80s really helped me. The company didn’t pay me, it wasn’t a job as such and was just work experience, but I did go on to get a job after a few months. Not sure if it’s still going in some other form, but I definitely didn’t get any money apart from my ‘ dole’ money.
My Dh was an apprentice, but the company he worked for were very picky and that was in the late 70s.
I still feel companies will pick and choose.
Not sure throwing so much money at it is a good idea.

(Might take a while for the image to be approved)
This is quite a sobering graph of German gross salary v take-home. I might try and cobble together a UK one for comparison if I get time.

ISTR it’s been suggested/looked at a few times under both New Labour and the Coalition/Tory government. And yes that was how it was characterised. I think there is a danger it could be exploitative but I think there is a reasonable principle there.

@SpaceRaccoon
You would struggle to actually find all the hidden redistribution.

Where did you get that graph from, out of interest?

I despair apprenticeships are such a hot topic these days. Ds two school friends. Did apprenticeships 3 years, yes the pay wasn't great but at 25 years of age they've both bought houses. They're on 40k. Whereas DS after five years at university, another year to go luckily in the workplace is on 7k less.

I think that would be quite interesting. A FOI request is quite easy to do.

I'd suggest asking what percentage of spending is on
a) means-tested services
b) services related to disability and incapacity (including SEND)
c) children's social care
d) services which are universally available to all residents, eg libraries, waste disposal, police, roads, park maintenance
e) council support services such as finance, restructuring etc
f) interest payments
g) other costs (please specify what they are)

Finally went on Rightmove house in Merton park Wimbledon on a friends road four beds 2 baths. Her council tax is £1100 pa less than mine. I'm in a small bungalow in North Wales. I'll go check out my parents house in Sussex next.

Okay Horsham District council parents old house. The council tax is £1300 PA less than mine 🙈