His MAGAsty Meets His Majesty - Trump Thread #163

[Spandauer]

America's very own mad king.
Oh, the irony.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ERYukmba5Vg

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5518997-schrodingers-strait-trump-thread-162a?page=1

I recall seeing something somewhere that in the US there are laws/rules/ethical things to do with remote diagnosis. And that this prevents news networks etc from having guest docs on to give their opinions.

I remember thinking what a shame that was in a way, because it could have saved a lot of pain if they were allowed to. But at the same time, I can understand the reasoning.

Disclaimer, don't know if true or not... I saw it on interweb. But I did just look it up. The Goldwater rule apparently.

What is the Goldwater Rule and how has it been interpr... (factually.co)

As a result, someone who clearly did have all his marbles was tried at the court of Media and found to be senile, while someone who clearly has about two marbles left and one of those is oval is found by Media to be entirely competent and not in the least senile.

Who needs people who know what they are talking about?

The way the US media usually gets around this is with a disclaimer "Dr X has never seen nor treated 'Person in Question' (PiQ). Then Dr X goes on to say "I have not seen nor treated PiQ but <lists their behaviour & apparent/visible symptoms> can often point to <list of potential diagnoses>. Of course, I am not making a diagnosis of PiQ". Often there's an 'It may mean nothing of the sort' tacked on at the end.

This happens a lot with physical illnesses when a public figure goes to the hospital, has some kind of 'episode' in public view, or just looks or acts ill or frail. You don't see it as much with, shall we say, 'behavioural issues'.

Unfortunately, being 'too old' in this country doesn't seem to be covered by any type of professional discretion or ethical standards. As an 'older person' I can attest to a bias when it comes to our abilities to conduct our affairs and our lives.

Scrotus exploited that when it came to Joe. And his favourite media outlets had no compunction on having spurious 'experts' expound on his 'senility'.

OOOOO, disclaimers! That'll get you reported on some MN threads. But that just gave me an idea for my new username.<smiles mysteriously>

Yes. I had a quick look at some articles on it, and I did notice that Goldwater was a "conservative" Repub. I did wonder if it was another " one rule for us and another for them "

But as a layperson, I can see the logic in the rule.

Starmer showing that he's still in charge?

HMS Dragon to redeploy to Middle East ahead of potential role to safeguard shipping in Strait of Hormuz
HMS Dragon is being deployed from the Eastern Mediterranean towards the Middle East ahead of a potential role in a future multinational Strait of Hormuz mission.
The Ministry of Defence (MoD) said the decision would mean the ship could immediately contribute, if needed, to a future mission to safeguard freedom of navigation through the waterway.
It added that any plan would be strictly defensive and aimed at restoring confidence for commercial shipping.
Sky news.

I'm thinking that 'defensive' can have wide ranging meaning within the context of 'restoring confidence for commercial shipping'. Details needed. Perception of a threat can even mean that closing the Strait is an economic threat.🤔

I'm thinking that 'defensive' can have wide ranging meaning

It can but as far as the UK announcement goes it's worth being aware HMS Dragon is a Type 45 Guided Missile destroyer.

If you look at the weapons systems that class of warship carries you can see the emphasis is very much on it being able to protecting itself and accompanying vessels from incoming ordnance (aircraft/missiles/drones) and perhaps small surface vessels...

I'm not sure there would be much appetite at UK MoD for getting her into anything along the lines of a gunfight with Iranian facilities on shore.

Air defense destroyer. Really a blue water carrier escort I think. It defends the carrier, while the carrier planes do the offensive strikes ?

But I think the Prince of Wales carrier is still being prepped for the Arctic later this year. To defend Greenland from the Chinese/Russians (who have no interest in Greenland), or to defend it from Trump. And Trump does want it for his golden dome. Even though "ownership" of Greenland is not needed for it.

Other Type 45s and Frigates will be needed to escort the Arctic tour later. Especially if the usual NATO assets are off in the Gulf.

Trump really is a resource vampire.

And TBH, the Brit navy is in a bit of an underfunded state.

There is that RFA ship with Dragon, and it has a couple of GPMGs.

Another thing Starmer has to consider is the upcoming Caribbean hurricane season. That will need at least one ship in case assistance is needed for Brit territories. And the Russian spy ships doing their thing around cables in the North Sea and Atlantic. He really can't drop all commitments for Trump.

Edit to add - I forgot the Falklands.

@notimagain Thanks for that info. I'm suspicious because both UK and Fr vessels are on their way there, so think something must be up.

Trump declaring victory and buggering off, leaving the mess for others to clean up.
Trump going into full Rambo mode, attacking Iran, and as above.
Mission creep.

Trump will do something to break the stalemate before his trip to Chyna.

The French Carrier Charles-de-Gaulle went through the Suez Canal on Thursday..

Got lots of coverage in French MSM and I think understandably much emphasis that as far as the French go this is about protecting merchant shipping/getting the Straits open.

There's zero appetite here (France) for getting involved in offensive ops, and most certainly not offensive ops at the behest of the US.

Is this to defend commercial shipping from Iran, or from the US?

With both threatening shipping i have no fucking clue.

Both????
Or the one flying the flag here attached on that day.

I'm trying to find a West Wing quote... so naturally have come here to tap the expertise of @CaveMum, please .

Which episode was it where Bartlett tells an audience that as a law student he was taught that, if the facts were not on his side, he should bang on the table and shout? Or something like that?

I don't know about the West Wing by there's an old lawyer's quote that says "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."

Hmm, I think I know which one you mean...

"We've got the law on our side now" ?

This:
THE WEST WING
'FIVE VOTES DOWN'
TELEPLAY BY: AARON SORKIN
STORY BY: LAWRENCE 0'DONNELL & PATRICK CADDELL
DIRECTED BY: MICHAEL LEHMANN

TEASERFADE IN: INT. BALLROOM - NIGHT MONDAY NIGHT
Bartlet is speaking at a dinner. He stands behind the podium while importantpeoplein fancy clothes listen to him. Hanging behind him is a banner that says 'Practical Idealism'.
BARTLET One night he went in and set the briefcase down and said, 'Bess, why do yousupposeit is that only sons-of-bitches know how to lick a stamp?' [laughter andapplause] The point is, friends, you've got to write the letter, you've got to senda fax, you've got to pick up the phone and call Western Union. You've got to contact your Congressional representative...
Backstage, Leo is watching the speech as his phone rings. He answers it, while Bartlet continues in the background.
BARTLET You've got to say 'Mister, I've got a friend who's neighbor is dead...
LEO McGarry here.
BARTLET'...Madam, I've got a neighbor whose friend is dead, whose husband is dead,whosemother is dead, kids are dead! Kids are dead!
LEO What are you talking about?
BARTLET'...and I wanna know, mister. I wanna know, madam...
LEO How did it happen?
BARTLET...how you intend to vote on Wednesday, so that I'll know how to vote next election...'
LEO Well how did the wheels come off this thing?
BARTLET You gotta ask 'em. You gotta ask 'em! [Applause. Josh joins Leo backstage.]
LEO We lost five votes.
JOSH What?
LEO We lost five votes.
JOSH Give me names.
LEO I don't got them yet. Get on the phone.
JOSH [groans] Oh, man! JOSH gets on the phone. Somewhere backstage, Toby is watching the Bartlet speech on aT.V. screen.
BARTLET You know, I had a civil procedure professor who said once...
TOBY Take a beat. [pause] There you go.
BARTLET He said, 'When the law is on your side, argue the law; and when the facts are onyour side, argue the facts...
Leo and Josh are both talking on their phones, with Bartlet on T.V. screens in thebackground.
LEO But it's not in cement.
BARTLET...When you don't have the law on your side, when you don't have the facts on yourside, bang your fist on the defense table as loud as you can.' Well, we've got the law on our side now, and we've got the facts on our side now...
JOSH Yeah, this is Josh Lyman. Please call me. I need to know what happened.
BARTLET...bang our fist on the defense table, but we're not listening any more. We're nothaving that any more. We're gonna win on Wednesday. We're gonna win on Wednesday! Thank you all. [The crowd stands up and applauds.] God bless you, and God bless America!
Bartlet works his way out of the room while 'Happy Days Are Here Again' plays. The staff follows as they all walk through the back hallways.

Season 1 Ep 4.

The one with the massive walk n talk through the hotel before the credits roll.

eta BUGGER! That lost all the formatting!

Thank you both very much! That's exactly what I was looking for!

The reason I was looking for the saying was it has dawned on me there's a particular MN poster – one who sometimes visits these threads indeed – with whom it's a "tell".

Sometimes they post fairly evenly. And sometimes they pound the table and act angry or outraged. And every time they do the latter, it's a sign to look more closely – because they're trying to sell us a pup.

Another week gone by. Another week of humiliation for the US. Are they just hanging around waiting for Iran to message them? Bonkers.

Has anyone told Trump their internet is out, and their infrastructure bombed ?

Ok, I know it is the Iranians who cut the net. But I have an image in my head of an Iranian carrier pigeon heroically crossing the gulf and being machine gunned down by a US destroyer.

Anyway, I don't think Trump said what Friday.

He has been posting some weird ai videos again

Today's news from my contact in Kuwait is that Iran launched surveillance drones in North Kuwait this morning, but they were shot down by Kuwait's defence system.

Now that Kuwait is allowing US to continue using its base there, Iran probably deciding which bits to target next to minimise civilian but maximise US damage. Doesn't Iran have Russian intel for this?

According to the Ward Carroll piece on Youtube I mentioned a few days back Iran certainly had (? Paid for?) access to 1 metre resolution satellite imagery from the Chinese.

Ah yes @notimagain , I did watch the video and it's Chinese and not Russian. I can't see Trump ranting at Xi about it.

I have seen any yet, but Trump needs to stop, Iran's already won the meme war.
Latest effort trolls the 'UFO' files.
https://x.com/FurkanGozukara/status/2053294633711546421?s=20