The Orange Man and the State of his Union - Trump thread #139

[Spandauer]

Thanks to @JoshLymanSwagger for the thread title.

Trump, Vance and Musk are building a bigly bridge across the Bering Strait...
...and creating a gaping chasm in the Atlantic.

Kind hearts are more than coronets, and simple faith than Norman blood.
Alfred Lord Tennyson

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/chat/5275361-an-unholy-trinity-or-just-a-seedy-threesome-trump-musk-and-putin-trump-thread-138

I think he's great. Smart, funny, knowledgeable, very genuine, and never backs down. I wish he was younger. He unabashedly lacks that populist presence people seem to want, though.

Or North Korea now.

That's a difficult choice for you @Dariendreamer if you have aging family in both countries that may need your support in the future. DH's parents have both died so although he has 3 brothers and their families and a 'sort of stepmother' in the US he now doesn't feel as tied to the US as he did when our DC were younger and his DPs were alive.

But I guess my thoughts mirror those that @BlackeyedSusan set out in her post. If you're potentially at risk (race, religion, 'wokeness', immigrant etc) to any of the administration's coming legislation and cuts etc then that would be enough for me to leave. DH said he wouldn't be surprised if our DC have their citizenship downgraded in some way as they were born here (UK) and only have one US parent.

Yes that's very true, he's not the future of the Dems so much as heading towards elder statesman. They need both though. I think Raskin could take a Bernie Sanders-like role in public life the coming years, Bernie must be slowing down now. Raskin is about 20 years younger than him, 63 I think.
Bernie is actually an independent and not a Dem.

I'm sorry @Spandauer but ppl like Slotkin are why maga happened. Look at my military record - all those tours of duty in countries we left in ruin. All those wars we lost. Infinite war. Don't let appearances fool you - I'm a tough cookie!

For some reason women who want advancement in the USA have to foreground how macho they are - especially if they are 'centrist ' Democrats. Time to get real. She is in Michigan , the water in Afghanistan is probably more drinkable.

As much as I would love to see a female US president, I think we are decades away from seeing it actually happen.

We’ve seen the country is rife with misogyny and the DEI backlash will take a long time to unpick.

Like it or not, the only way the Dems get elected going forward is to pick a “regular”, straight white guy from “somewhere in the middle”.

I agree!! That's why Biden beat Trump in 2020. People have theorised that if Biden had run against Trump in 2016, instead of Hilary Clinton, he'd never have got in the WH at all. And wouldn't have kept on trying, either.

So that they can declare a 'win'.

I hated how Trump said that the US was going to be the most dominant country ever.
Good luck with that, matey. You've lost credibility already, no one trusts your word and what about Russia/China?

The fundamental truth here - unpalatable as it is - is that the civil wat basically did not conclude with the end of hostilities. And the underlying sentiments that it encompassed are still in place.

Whilst that has been a constant these past 160 years the divisions in society have broadly been equally spread over the political divide and could be accommodated.

However the past 20? years have seen these splits slowly be realigned so that they all sit one side or the other of the political debate. Hence the Dem/GOP split. Throw in a dodgy electoral system (sympathies from the UK on that) and you have a recipe for what is happening.

Luckily - whether by design or chance - Britains civil war (with the exception of Ireland and Cromwell) is far more settled. And no one is seriously pushing a myth of the "lost cause" in the way some people in the US are.

Again it's all echoing the stuff his niece Mary was talking about. His dad Fred neglected him but was obsessed with his sons being "killers" as a mark of manhood.

Which means to dominate. Ironically Trump never got to actually fight in armed services because of his Bone Spurs

No Trump has ever served in the military.
https://eu.capecodtimes.com/story/opinion/columns/2020/02/12/president-bone-spur-has-no/1724792007/

Yes. Someone pointed out the other day that one of the likely sources of animosity is that he's probably green with envy over Zelenskyy's bravery so needs to try to bring him down a notch. He and Muskrat and their families would have been on the first plane out in Z's position.

I have no opinion on Slotkin one way or another. Just wanted to share what the Dems said in response to His Orangeness.

Currently the Dems are a lost cause. No clear direction, no meaningful message. If I had to choose I'd rather have someone like AOC - but Musk will have colonised Jupiter before that could happen.

Mr trump underestimates (or more likely completely disregards) at his peril, the effects of soft power!

I agree with you @Spandauer, on AOC. I'm still waiting for my AOC/Pete Buttigieg ticket.

I don't think it's too useful or accurate to make grand pronouncements on the 'why's. In the last few pages @Abhannmor and @Lyannaa have weighed in on why MAGA happened and why Biden won in 2020 and another poster (can't remember who) has pronounced trans issues as the reasons the Dems will lose the midterms.

I suspect there are bits and pieces of truth around the edges of all these things, but if there were simple, clear answers, easy to analyse from in front of our laptops, they'd have been easy to solve and we wouldn't be in this place.

Bit of light relief.

The Democrats need to pick three front runners for 2028
NOW
and get them out there messaging the people
every day, every hour, every channel.

The Dems need to show they have REAL answers for REAL people
not gender woo
clear ideas about building jobs in every state
clarifying the impact of DOGE and tariffs in every state

they need to set up an "opposition front bench"
and have a clear rallying point for the increasing dissatisfaction and anger that is coming

This from a French Senator

French Senator : "Washington has become Nero’s court, with an incendiary emperor, submissive courtiers and a jester high on ketamine. (...) We were at war with a dictator, we are now at war with a dictator backed by a traitor" - Claude Malhuret.

Wow that’s strong!

I think closer to Caesar and the triumvirate. The only consolation being what happened to Crassus, Pompey and Caesar.

The thought of Trump as Crassus appeals ...

I like this fighting talk! Not sure how useful it is, but I'm so angry with Trump and his coterie of the thieves and traitors so I like hearing it. 👊

From elsewhere on the internet:

Someone was surmising that Putin, in that "very productive" hour long chat that no one knows what was discussed with Trump, could either have threatened to use Nuclear weapons on the battlefield (which would explain Trump/ Vance fretting at that Zelensky meeting that he was playing with WW3), or, since he is Mr Transactional, Putin could have made him a straight offer of $Billions into his bank account to call Ukraine off the war.

Maybe both?

Whilst I do think it’s possible, Trump has been using WW3 rhetoric for ages it’s not new (remember on the campaign trail he consistently said he would stop WW3). I suspect Putin is more likely to have flattered his ego and offered him something material.

Just saw this on Twitter.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5177420-supreme-court-blocks-trump-funding/

The Supreme Court in a 5-4 emergency ruling Wednesday refused to halt a judge’s decision ordering the Trump administration to immediately release nearly $2 billion in foreign aid payments owed under existing contracts.