Why is there no threads about trump and putin?

[mommyfinger]

Just making a deal without Ukraine ? Is this not really fucked up? I'm worrying more than I ever have about the world. I think Europe need to tell them to fuck off

There are here and there but I agree I'm surprised at the usual lack of many chats on such an important subject.

Europe I'm sure would love to tell them to fuck off but as zelensky was once again pleading, invest in defence.

Europe cannot defend itself by itself against putin and furthermore without us

Until Trump actually says what he intends to do there's not much to say. It's extremely arrogant to say he and Putin will sort it out Ukraine is the country affected by whatever deal is reached and has to be involved. Why should Ukraine have some cobbled together peace deal forced on them? And I'm not sure Zelensky will accept any such deal.

I really hope Zelenskyy doesn't accept, I think the only way he will is by force. I feel sorry for the bloke ! Let's be honest, we know trump will tell putin to take part of Ukraine. Twats.

Also I heard USA saying Ukraine can't join nato? Erm why and since when are they the boss of the world ?

@custardpyjamas zelensky doesn't have to accept anything and apparently the last talks failed because to many people were involved.

As much as I have huge admiration for zelensky I can't see him helping to de escalate tensions and help to solve this problem.

I actually thinks it's a good idea for USA whose essentially at war with Russia through Ukraine to negotiate and go back to zelensky.
But unfortunately Europe are in no position to call any shots here.

@mommyfinger I agree I don't think they or Russia should have any say on how a sovereign nation joins clubs.
However it was putin excuse and there are ways around it. They want to join nato to protect themselves
We can't properly protect them right now because we are in a tinder box, supplying them from the edges

If a peace deal is struck we can supply Ukraine properly.

You're just seeing the US from behind the curtain. This is why the US is very unpopular outside Europe. They are the biggest bully in the playground and they kill millions of people but because they're not European, they don't count.

Trump knows that Europe doesn't have the military power to defend itself against the US and he's an isolationist who has no respect for the law or diplomacy.

This is why the UK was better off in the EU.

Any country in NATO can veto a new country joining--it's the way the charter is written.

I'm also surprised there isn't more threads about it on MN.

I'm hopeful there's some truth in what @StatuteofLiberty is saying, but I'm worried Trump will put his weight behind any kind of deal just so he gets the kudos for getting it done, and never mind the fall out. (Edited to add - so long as America benefits)

Ukraine is stuffed full of natural resources- valuable minerals and excellent farm land.
Putin and Trump want to divvy it up between themselves- they don't want Zelenskyy or the rest of Europe (which includes the UK btw) sticking their oar in to stop them clearing out the loot.

Anyone who can't see 1/ how dangerous Putin is to peace in Europe or 2/ thinks the USA is on "our" side or will lift a finger to help Europe against Russia is living in lala land.

Your last paragraph, this is what worries me. It's quite scary.

@username299 which countries in the eu will protect us the UK against Russia?

Why do we need to be in the eu?

From a Canadian, the USA is broke and desperate, 36 trillions in debt. Trump wants cheap minerals and is trying to bully everyone who has over time benefited from their benevolence.
Carving out land for Israel and Palestine hasn’t gone well and I don’t see carving Ukraine to Russia (while raping Ukraine of its minerals) will bode well for Ukraine or any of the neighboring countries.
Militarily many countries will need to arm themselves better. My suggestion is don’t buy American. Plenty of excellent French and German arms dealers.

There's something called the European Trading Bloc, it means that members of the EU can freely trade and prevent competing economies from imposing their goods, including food on us. The EU also has certain standards that products have to have.

European army. The members of the EU could have their equivalent of NATO instead of relying on the US.

At the moment the UK is by itself and would last six months against an invasion. I imagine we'd last longer if we had the aid of other countries. We're currently in NATO but the US has gone rogue.

Tomorrow macron has organised an emergency summit. Hopefully some plan will come out of it?

I agree over the lack of debate OP, but I also think we are exhausted by maga maniac already

I believe US can elect who it wants, and remove itself from European defense if it wants. I also agree European nations should invest more in defence/nato

But I don't believe in the method: screwing over allies and throwing Ukraine under a bus. But that's what this insular approach means, in terms of trade, defence etc. As the USA implodes in on itself thinking it can force its manufacturing and will on the world.

In terms of allies and approach, there are other countries who won't agree with the superpowers domination eg Canada, Australia

In terms of Ukraine. I hope that they can get what they want although it will be at a price. So maybe Nato membership in exchange for its minerals etc. I am not very hopeful this will happen, and its horrible to have to do it, but it is a key bargaining chip left that I was only recently aware of

Dread to think what the Daily Telegraph and mail will think about a possible EU army.
Wasn’t that the big scare tactic with leaving the EU, a possible European army ?
I’ve read that Trump wants US to gain access to 50% of Ukraines mineral resources as a kind of payment for the help they’ve offered, just disgusting.

@Nonamenoblame and equally shocking to realize (fully) how much financial presence the usa took on. everything from global weather to billions of grants for all sorts. here in canada Trumps every sneeze is in the news (along with the sneezing of his VP and other aids) it is tiresome but still shocking to hear how many agencies benefited from usaid here in canada.
but on another front the usa equally blocked canada from increasing it's military (submarine fleet) as late as the 1980's threatening anyone who partnered with us (france). so clearly they like their neighbors in a weakened military position but now complaining.

if the whole might of russia had kept fighting without the rest of the world or some of it, Ukraine would have lost long before now

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5273447-to-think-trump-might-be-the-right-leader-for-right-now?page=1

In my view Trump just wants to stop paying for Ukraine's war. He is not forcing them to make a deal, but if he withdraws financial support then they will have no choice anyway.

He will expect payback in the form of deals for resources for ongoing help, but knows that the best way to reduce his costs is to stop this futile war.

I hope it will also mean an end to any escalation or further encroachment by Russia, at least for a while.

@Throughthebluebells i think all of trumps motives are financial as well, yes to pulling out and if not pulling out then payment in kind expected.
and on some level he's doing that to many countries and many are over the barrel.

Let’s see what happens at the summit tomorrow. Of course Poland and Finland are heavily invested in the outcome.

Perhaps not many people are talking about it because they can't stand either of them, and can't bear to think about it all.

Yep let’s hope. I think we needed that European army that for some reason everyone was scared of. Or telling me ‘it’s the same as NATO’… but as we are now seeing NATO is American.

It’s scary times op, the US leadership is selling us out and we’re back in the pre-WW1 era of empires carving the world up. When the watch failed, when no one cared, democracy died. Past tense.