Why is there no threads about trump and putin?

[mommyfinger]

Just making a deal without Ukraine ? Is this not really fucked up? I'm worrying more than I ever have about the world. I think Europe need to tell them to fuck off

I'm not quite sure what you mean but compared to Putin and Trump..... Yes!

If we have been invaded, then our nuclear weapons were not much of a deterrent, were they?

This !

Also musk can make his lithium batteries with all the extra minerals they have access too

Our poor dc. That’s all I can think about.

Well we haven't been invaded and we're not in danger of being invaded.

You stated that we wouldn't last 6 months if we were invaded! I'm saying nuclear weapons would be deployed way before the 6 months!

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves how are we isolated?
We are not only very far from isolated we are at the heart of today's emergency meeting in Paris when ironically many eu leaders are not present. We have one of the strongest military in Europe which by the way we are still part of

If I was in Europe right now and the UK said they wouldn't support Russian containment I would be extremely nervous

Sure. We'd nuke Moscow.

I actually thought the same thing this morning and without noticing your thread started my own on AIBU

I agree OP it is very concerning

@sleepwouldbenice I don't agree with. I loathe both Trump and Putin, but so what? I wish it would make a difference, but I don't think it will. It's a waste of money, for no effect.

We should be keeping people out of war, not negotiating our way into preparing for it.

Completely agree. We lost a family member out in Afghanistan the last time Labour were in power and took us to a war which wasn't ours and I don't wish that on anyone again. We need to learn lessons from Afghanistan and people need to remember how many young soldiers were killed. I'm sick of hearing people saying we have a responsibility, we thought the same before and lost so many.

@spuddy4

I agree

So much of Europe has depleted their defence by sending so much of their kit to the Ukraine to be blown up by Russia or to be onsold to the Middle East and other places. It started with just old kit but them moved to the newer kit. It really worries me how vulnerable Europe has made themselves and I'm not sure they have the manufacturing capability to restock.

At this point, he deserves zero credit. Appeasement is only ever going to be a short term solution.

What’s ’LOL’ about any of this?

Starmer is no Churchill. He's more of a "if you don't like my principles, I have others" character. People forget that appeasement of Hitler was popular. They were delighted with Chamberlain's "peace in our time" paper-waving. Even when Hitler invaded Poland, many people in the UK thought it was none of our business, because after all, most countries do not seek the destruction war brings. But thinking that aggressive leaders seeking to acquire land can just be ignored will not preserve our freedom. I don't hold out much hope, because I think people are eager to sacrifice freedom for perceived security , and maybe they would even feel safer with Russian hegemony than with the threat of Islamism, which via no coincidence at all is all over Twitter.

Every time someone says negotiate they mean give part of the Ukraine to Russia to appease them and hope they won't come back for more.

Aside from how wrong that is (Imagine giving Cornwall and the people in it to Putin) it doesn't work. It just rewards Russia and encourages them to take more. Unless we make it very hard for him Putin eventually will be demanding Cornwall and then it will be too late.

It's in the interest of all the countries in Europe to stop Putin. We don't have to defeat him exactly. Just make it too expensive in resources to carry on.

This war has already cost him more than he would have expected and we need to make it clear we can keep it going for the next 20 years if we must. If he believes that he will stop.

Convincing the other powerful figures in Moscow may work too as they could remove him.

This is one of those times when saying we want peace would be a disaster. It's better if he thinks every voter in Europe is keen to fight. It doesn't have to be true.

Yes, that was a horrendous mess, wasn't it. Especially the nature of the withdrawal.

And you think capitulating doesn't have consequences?

Yes

And people forget that the land that russia has taken - and the other bits they want - have real life Ukrainians living there.

It's sickening

heres the costs :

Here is a straightforward and more digestible cost breakdown of how the proposed strategy to deter Russia can be implemented:

1. Economic Pressure Strategy

• Sanctions and Export Controls:
• Monitoring and enforcement: £450 million/year
• Targeted sanctions (e.g., on oligarchs, tech): £250 million/year
• Energy and Resource Disruption:
• Diversifying energy sources and reducing reliance on Russia: £1.6 billion one-time cost
• Supporting alternative energy projects: £400 million/year

2. Political and Intelligence Measures

• Influencing Russian Political Figures:
• Diplomatic and intelligence operations to create internal political instability: £150 million/year
• Promoting Internal Dissent in Russia:
• Support for civil society groups and anti-war campaigns: £80 million/year
• International media and public messaging: £40 million/year

3. Military Deterrence and Support for Ukraine

• NATO and EU Military Presence in Eastern Europe:
• Enhanced military readiness (troops, exercises, defense systems): £8 billion/year
• Continued military aid and support for Ukraine: £2.5 billion/year

4. Public Messaging and Perception

• Unity and Resilience Messaging:
• Public diplomacy and media campaigns to reinforce Europe’s commitment: £30 million/year

Total Estimated Annual Costs:

• Ongoing Costs:
• Economic pressure, political influence, and messaging: £1.35 billion/year
• Military support and deterrence: £10.5 billion/year

Total Estimated One-Time Investment:

• Initial Infrastructure and Diversification Costs:
• Energy diversification and long-term plans: £2 billion (one-time)

Grand Total for First Year (Including One-Time Investment):

• £14.85 billion

This is a simplified cost estimate, breaking down the larger components of the strategy into manageable numbers. The largest costs are military support and economic pressure, with a significant one-time investment in energy infrastructure to reduce dependence on Russian resources.

I'm finding the news at the moment so alarming that I'm having to ration my exposure to it for the sake of my MH, so I'm behind the curve a lot of the time atm. Which is a bit head-in-sand of me (and makes me feel guilty because those caught in the middle of the crazy aren't afforded the same luxury), but it wouldn't surprise me if others had had to adopt the same coping strategy. It might partly explain the lack of debate, which I have noticed too.