Why is there no threads about trump and putin?

[mommyfinger]

Just making a deal without Ukraine ? Is this not really fucked up? I'm worrying more than I ever have about the world. I think Europe need to tell them to fuck off

I agree. In the end the values of Americans and America have changed. It is their choice. They really do believe everything they are fed
They will never accept responsibility for the consequences either.
It's all about MAGA with no regards for the consequences, in this case MRGA.
All we can do is sever ties, turn our backs and build our own way. I might look over my shoulder as they implode

First of all, you save lives if you can end a war sooner than later.

@RingoJuice you think Ukrainians want to end the war on any terms whatsoever, even if that means surrendering their sovereign country to Russia or to become a US colony? If they wanted to save lives at any cost then they would never have put up such a brave and heroic fight to begin with as there'd be nothing worth fighting over.

Russia will only "take more territory" if Trump let's them - by marching to the sound of their drum, repeating Putin's lies, prematurely giving away concessions like Ukraine not joining NATO etc and basically the USA being weak and capitulating. This is when Putin knows he can get away with further wickedness. He's laughing at Americans and Trump's stupidity.

Europe has billions in seized Russian assets which can be used to arm Ukraine and were the USA stand firm on arms and sanctions Ukraine could most definitely defend themselves against Putin. The longevity of the war is largely down to Republicans delaying and holding up the processes of agreeing and getting arms to Ukraine the last couple of years.

It is inevitable that China will retake Taiwan imho. Why do you think the US has TSMC produce domestically? Think they will also partner with Intel.

Once again a comment revealing the sheer ignorance and arrogance - are you fed your news from X by any chance? America's chip production is a tiny fraction of Taiwan's and is still in its absolute infancy! It's predicted to take at least 15 years to get anywhere close to competitive. And the US would not be immune global supply issues and to a huge stock market crash either.

If you think Trump gives a shit about how much cash you've got in your pocket you are wrong. He cares about the billionaires and himself only and fuck everyone else.

• I agree. In the end the values of Americans and America have changed. It is their choice. They really do believe everything they are fed. They will never accept responsibility for the consequences either. It's all about MAGA with no regards for the consequences, in this case MRGA* .All we can do is sever ties, turn our backs and build our own way. I might look over my shoulder as they implode

@sleepwouldbenice

I agree but I am starting to ask if their values have really changed or if they were there all along but we just didn't see it? Their culture had always been different and more toxic than the UK/Europe's. Eg their systems and culture has always been gun-toting, gun-worshipping, religiously puritanical, materialistic, and misogynistic/ testosterone-fuelled, but their leaders covered it up with a veneer of "we're the good guys".

@dayoffvibes what would you do? Is it better for Ukraine to keep fighting, to what end?

Can they win?

I know what you mean. There are plenty of aspects I love and admire but they are getting rarer and rarer and putting up with trump the first time was bad enough. Remember him with the queen and Theresa May? Shudder

If China take Taiwan the US would run out of long range missiles in 10 days. Russia is manufacturing military equipment much more quickly and way, way more cost effectively than anywhere else.

You are mental if you think Ukraine can win.

What does winning look like at this point to you? Do you really think you can chase Putin out of Ukraine and give them back their territory?

That does not seem realistic at all.

In America media, we are not even sold on Ukrainian victory like in European media. The pitch is that we can use the Ukrainians to wear down Russia. That it’s a relatively cost-free way to undermine Russia with eager Ukrainians.

….. this doesn’t sound good for Ukraine at all. It sounds like we are far too willing to let Ukraine ruin itself just to give Russia a black eye

Once again a comment revealing the sheer ignorance and arrogance - are you fed your news from X by any chance? America's chip production is a tiny fraction of Taiwan's and is still in its absolute infancy! It's predicted to take at least 15 years to get anywhere close to competitive. And the US would not be immune global supply issues and to a huge stock market crash either

And yet, China will come for Taiwan someday. America knows this. It is inevitable.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to suggest that putting up a good fight against Russia will delay them in any substantial way. China presumably have their own time table on it that has little to do with events in Ukraine.

America is trying to prepare for Chinese invasion of Taiwan by bringing back high and low end manufacturing to the US. It must be done, whether you like it or not.

In any case, funding Ukraine is just not a worthwhile cause in this frame.

apple.news/APr8XSxeWS1K9AHBzhA0HkQ

And here it is. Trump wants the minerals.

BBC headline
Twelve killed in strikes on Ukraine as White House urges Zelensky to reach minerals deal

It does make you wonder if Ukraine is now at war with US rather than Russia

@RingoJuice your understanding of this is woeful and you clearly don't read very widely. No-one serious in Europe thinks Ukraine will "win" in your Hollywood version of winning where the baddies all get blown up and the goodies high five each other. The goal is not to facilitate a Putin win. And that's a very different thing. The sanctions, and international ostracism combined with the relentless depletion of his troops are what would keep him at bay. But Trump is too stupid and ill-advised to see that.

Ok but this is just young people dying daily, in the thousands

How long would you see a war of attrition going on for?

This has been answered again and again. It's about not rewarding invasion and capitulation to aggressive dictators

I think many of us are speechless with horror at the moment tbh.

This has been answered again and again.

It hasn't been answered here even let alone 'again and again'. The question was how long would you want a war of attrition to continue, given the thousands dying per day

Young people with no choice, it may feel abstract still but it's not to those doing it

Mineral Agreement imminent. No nato membership either. Poor Ukraine.
This is just the beginning for Putin.

I think you are the one with Hollywood brain, thinking that you should not let Putin ‘win’.

Keeping him at bay is costing Ukrainian lives and, quite frankly, who wants to pay for that? Do you really think you can just force Putin to go home?

Sanctions are toothless and he doesn’t care about being ‘ostracized’.

By continuing with the war, you will give Ukraine less and less bargaining power. The longer it drags on, the less favorable terms Ukraine will get. And more lives will be lost in the meantime.

The US is signalling how bad things are on the ground in Ukraine. They probably have more understanding of the situation

It's Ukraines choice to carry on. I respect that

It's what you don't get. It's their country not the USA or Russia

They decide their cards, not Trump

Not signalling. Lying, manipulating, self centred and capitulation to Russia.
He will call himself the great peace maker and negotiator
Nothing is further from the truth. Its incredulous

@InWalksBarberalla if that's true unfortunately adversity is the mother of creation.
Like the Chinese making that chat gpt copy with less cost and materials.

@sleepwouldbenice it's not me you need to convince. Zelenskyy has said he needs US funds to continue.

It's awful for Ukraine, they don't deserve it. The thousands of deaths per day, young people without choice, are also problematic to me.

So we won’t pay for it anymore and Ukraine will lose even more territory than they otherwise could expect if they negotiated now.

Still their choice. As is yours to stop, although it's been done in a diabolical, unforgivable, way. Just don't pretend its been done for good reasons, just an insular approach

And if its true, that extortion can be added to the capitulation actions then, really, just hang your heads in shame

Sanctions are toothless and he doesn’t care about being ‘ostracized’.

@RingoJuice this is incorrect. Russia has been crippled by sanctions and the Kremlin is desperate for movement on that, and as for being ostracised, well that's one of the worst sanctions you can give Putin. He's absolutely desperate to be brought in from the cold and seen as the big player on the world stage, - which of course idiot Trump has handed him without any pause for thought or insightful consideration. Just look at the joyous response from the Russian state media.

It was interesting hearing General Sir Nick Carter this week talking about how, when he chaperoned Trump at the D-Day commemorations, he was struck by Trump's incredibly limited knowledge of history and how much Trump needs to be educated. It is clearly the case that he has no knowledge, appreciation or respect for the history of Russia and Ukraine. Unfortunately that's what happens when you limit your information bubble to sycophants and fellow strongmen rather than reading widely.