Do you think Michael Jackson was guilty?

[InnocentOrGuilty]

Of the sexual abuse of boys.
I'm interested in a poll.
G = you think he was definitely guilty
I = you think he was innocent
(Stemming from a debate with DH last night!)

Guilty. I believe those poor men 100%

G.

But I don't think deep down he had a deliberate guilt in the way he meant hurt.

I think he had a very difficult childhood and issues of his own which caused him to make some extremely dangerous decisions and he couldn't see what he was doing was wrong. I'm not convinced he saw himself as an adult or wanted to grow up.

Doesn't excuse it though and I believe 100% he was guilty of sexual offences towards children.

I feel he targeted Macaulay Culkin deliberately as part of his public image scheme - pure narcissist and knowing he would then have a high profile defender

Guilty.
It wasn’t just the testimony of the victims, it was the housekeeper, who talked about some of the things she saw in the house. She had no reason to lie.

I mean, he even had a ‘type’. It couldn’t have been more obvious.

Guilty as fuck.

I used to know a huge fan who couldn't accept it at all though.

Who is Ian Hawkins?

Of course he was. Odious little creep. There's no excuse for bed sharing with unrelated children. He wasn't a genius, or a tortured soul or whatever other bollocks people come out with to excuse him. He was pedo.

My general rule is, if it was Dave the plumber from down the street that was doing xyz, would people still make the same excuses?

Evidence for the prosecution:
Testimony from multiple victims.
Behaviour that it is very difficult to apply an innocent explanation to. Beyond reasonable doubt, in fact.
Witnesses who mysteriously disappeared when paid or threatened- significant differences in power and influence between accused and accusers.
History of abusive childhood.
History of bizarre behaviour and multiple examples of behaviour that demonstrated a lack of concern for normal values.

Evidence for the Defence:
He denied it.
He was incredibly talented and people don’t want to confront that cognitive dissonance.
He was a very cute child and people don’t want to confront that cognitive dissonance.

Guilty. He was so clearly guilty. It’s astonishing how anyone can think anything else.

I expect they mean Ian Watkins. Member of the band Lost Prophets convicted of horrific sex crimes against babies. I suggest you don't read the court transcripts.

Do they mean Ian Watkins?

100% guilty. Will not listen to his music. I was astonished he wasn’t found guilty in the US trial, but their courts’ decisions often surprise me.

I don’t think there’s much doubt he was guilty tbh. He groomed the boys, their parents and his fans. He was clearly a very damaged person - you only have to look at what he did to his own face to see he was not right in the head.

G
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
G

Absolutely this

If you read the lyrics to his most famous songs they actually contain coded confessions. Substitute she for he.

People always told me be careful of what you do
And don't go around breaking young (boys) hearts
And mother always told me be careful of who you love
And be careful of what you do 'cause the lie becomes the truth

I'm on an android app and I can't vote on polls or view the results. Maybe op is in a similar situation.

Guilty.

Smooth criminal:

As he came into the window
It was the sound of a crescendo
He came into (her) apartment
He left the bloodstains on the carpet
(She) ran underneath the table
He could see (she) was unable
So (she) ran into the bedroom
(She) was struck down
It was (her) doom
^^
Are you ok Annie? <>
^^
You’ve been hit by a smooth criminal

@Mirabai

With that interpretation, those lyrics now make me feel sick.

Do I think that some of the alleged victims were just 'making up a story in order to get five minutes of fame and/or hush money & settlement money? (That's what defenders claim). Maybe some, but it definitely happened to some of the children linked with MJ, with MJ as the perpetrator.

With McCauley Culkin (however you spell it), I think he never abused him and showed him a nice, innocent time. Sleepovers with no funny business.

BUT

That's so that there would be a famous voice saying 'nothing happened to me!' and to make the actual victims look like liars. Also, if he did tell any adult about abuse, he himself was famous enough and beloved enough to send MJ to jail in a way random nobodies wouldn't have the power to do, and his parents couldn't be bought off.

I remember the Terry George interview on the Louis Theroux doc. MJ called him and wanked while on the phone when Terry was 13. When you see him talking about what happened, it's so obviously true. He's not seeking money, attention or fame, it only came out because his friend spoke up about it. Terry speaks in defence of MJ and thinks he was troubled rather than a paedo and has forgiven him. Which just shows how effectively he was groomed.
There's not one iota of doubt in my mind that he is guilty.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/he-spoke-about-masturbation-michael-jacksons-1979-phone-call-to-terry-george/EH3R2LFU3I2C5SBOW2MA2YVCYI/

I had a sheltered childhood in the 80's (we certainly didnt listen to music) and was a teenager when it came to light about the abuse

My parents where adamant mj was innocent and 'those nasty boys are only after money and fame'

I was on the fence until I got a bit older and looked a bit deeper into it

He's guilty as fuck-he used culkin to his own ends-dont abuse him and he'll stick up for me

Same with his own children

He never had little girls at his ranch-always boys at a certain age

I watched a documentary where the lads where interviewed and became 99% sure of his guilt and then another with his housekeeper-im 100% sure of his guilt

Creepy pervert but money talks even after death

The children he targeted tended to look similar. He was a highly manipulative, scheming type of paedophile, which belies the faux naive persona he hid behind. He would emotionally enmesh with and then drop these poor children like a stone when they eventually aged out and were no longer of interest to him. It was so bloody obvious and those defending him are deluded.

I think Kunt and The Gang summed up the situation perfectly in one of their choons called Michael Jackson Tribute. Here's the last bit of the lyrics:

So I had to fit his whole life into one double chorus

Michael Jackson, here's the basic facts, son
He was born black, he died white
And in the middle he fiddled with kids

Whack-o, Jack-o, died of a heart attack-o
He won some awards for his records
Fucked up his face for ten million quid

Born black, he died white and in the middle he fiddled with kids

I think the point a PP made about social media is very true. He had no 'trial by social media'.