Do you think Michael Jackson was guilty?

[InnocentOrGuilty]

Of the sexual abuse of boys.
I'm interested in a poll.
G = you think he was definitely guilty
I = you think he was innocent
(Stemming from a debate with DH last night!)

My answer to your last question would be, I would need to be cautious in case they are lying (my kids are 6 and 10, ND and they tell fibs from time to time).
If everything about them had changed E.g their attitude, are they less energetic, are they off their food etc then it’s more instant believable but if they were just as they usually are…. Then I would call 999 regardless for it to be investigated

In all realness, who knows how the f we would react.

My son was groomed this year, online. Never thought that would happen as I’m so aware of this shit going on and yet it happened in my home! I cried daily for a while after.
Police haven’t caught the perpetrator.

However…. As I’ve said before, people do lie about these things happening. I know an organisation that supports mainly men who have been accused/imprisoned falsely.

If the parents hadn’t allowed their child to stay over, then there’d be no allegations. Only there would because people are cnuts and will lie about anything

There are allegations because some people are cnuts and abusers…

@Jacesmum1977

Someone asked if your children had shared a bed with an unrelated adult male and they said they had been abused, would you believe them.

The fact your answer isn't an out and out 'yes' is genuinely quite concerning.

In all realness, who knows how the f we would react.

The vast majority of sensible parents would presume that if their child had shared a bed with an unrelated adult male and said they had been abused, that they were telling the truth.

The vast, vast majority.

So you’ve experienced something similar to the parents in MJ’s case - never thought it would happen yet it happened in your own home.

If your kids reported what kids and adult men reported in MJ’s case you would believe them if their behaviour changed. But if other kids report it you think they’re cnuts and liars. Is that right?

Well.yeah kids tell.lies ,but it's usually minor lies like they don't know how a cup got smashed, or they have cleaned their teeth
etc
They don't tend to tell huge lies about child abuse ,and if they did I would be very worried they were being coerced into it for some reason.

@Jacesmum1977 how would you feel if your child who was groomed online was called a liar and his groomer got all the sympathy?

Just finished a very informative podcast called telephone stories about all the cases and allegations. They present both sides and interview lawyers who were involved with the civil and criminal cases, people who knew the families, the child abuse specialist who interviewed the kids, and people who worked with Jackson. All the evidence really only points one way.

Taking away the fact that this was MJ, if a 30/40 year old man was hanging out with a litany of little boys and having them stay over in the same bed, had alarms on the bedroom door so he knew when people were approaching, was giving them alcohol, leaving porn around where they could see (all things that were never disputed), trading them in for younger models once they aged out and, the biggest thing, had been accused of molestation by several of the boys and other adults had witnessed inappropriate behaviour, it wouldn't even be a question whether he was guilty or not.

And for EIGHT kids to tell the same lie is absolutely extraordinary. How unlikely Jackson was the victim of all these liars and no other famous millionaire

And for EIGHT kids to tell the same lie is absolutely extraordinary. How unlikely Jackson was the victim of all these liars and no other famous millionaire

I can’t answer that because this was real. I have the hard evidence of that.
Were there videos of these kids doing what they said he made them do?
My son was told by someone online to check out a website and when I discovered my 10 yr old son in a state of undress and arousal, I saw a man stroking his own cock live on the screen. I saw that our camera was on also.
Our situation is not the same as we have been discussing and I’ll thank you to not question my child’s grooming when I saw it with my own eyes as did his dad.

Try to imagine people openly doubting your child and making death threats and calling them a liar. Even when you know it’s true. That’s what YOURE contributing to. YOU are happy to accuse sexually abused little boys of being liars so you have a real nerve to get cross when someone does the same to you.

There’s hard evidence against Jackson BTW. He’s perhaps the most obvious paedophile the world has ever seen. I honestly just now assume anyone who thinks he’s innocence is a half wit and probably not safe to be round kids. To have SO little knowledge of safeguarding is deeply worrying and I wouldn’t trust an “MJ is innocent” person around a goldfish let alone a kid. If people think a man who behaves SO MUCH like a paedophile, is innocent because <checks notes> he’s good at his job and is rich, they can’t be trusted to spot safeguarding red flags.

@Jacesmum1977

I can’t answer that because this was real. I have the hard evidence of that.
Were there videos of these kids doing what they said he made them do?

Jesus. Your default is to disbelieve children who say they were abused until they can produce video evidence of the abuse? That's terrifying especially coming from someone with children.

By the way, when it comes to internet safety, using your child's name and your birth year (I presume) really isn't recommended, a bit like using pets names / children's names in passwords.

And they are still threatening and harassing the now adult men. They post their addresses and even the date and location of Gavin arvisos wedding a few years ago. The MJ fans who still push the innocence line are completely unhinged.

Not video, but there were naked photos of Jonathan Spence found in Michael's bathroom in 1993.

And porno magazines with Michael and the children's finger prints on.

It's on the evidence sheet for submission to the court.

This is hard evidence he photographed at least on of his " special friends" fully nude and showed others pornography.

I wasn’t aware of this

And now you are aware of it @Jacesmum1977 what do you think? It's odd to acknowledge the new information saying you weren't aware of it but not say whether it affects your view of whether or not he was guilty.

And can you see how posts like your previous ones, accusing the children who say he abused them, of being liars (or more specifically potentially being "cunts and will lie about anything") are hugely damaging and a huge risk when you don't have the full facts?

Also as mentioned, when it comes to internet safety, using your child's name and your birth year (I presume) really isn't recommended, a bit like using pets names / children's names in passwords.

Someone has posted a link up thread with the list of items found in Jackson’s home by the FBI. It’s REALLY not for the faint hearted - it’s a dossier of picture books of naked little boys and extreme pornography

Also @Jacesmum1977 if you did wanna change your username MNHQ will do it for you so it appears differently and your details aren’t obvious!

Still here are you?
Wtf are you going on about???
I haven’t tried changing my name.
I don’t hide.

@Jacesmum1977

That poster was suggesting you ask MN to change your username as it's not advised online to use things like your child's name and your year of birth as it makes you identifiable. It was a sensible suggestion not an attack.

I didn’t see any links in the thread as I’m not about to trawl through this many pages.

And of course I don’t condone child sex abuse so of course my views on this subject change.

I’m not ashamed to admit when I get shit wrong. I was wrong.

@YaMuvva my apologies.
I’m trying to get my head around being ND (late diagnosis), the shit my DS has been through and the rest of the bs this years thrown at me. That has nothing to do with my views on this subject of course (which I have admitted I was wrong about). But I hope it explains why I’m quick to snap

That’s fair enough!
Hope you and your son are doing OK. Have you spoken to victim support? They can be really helpful especially when it comes to children victims.

Thanks.
We have a key worker from something called Stronger Families and we have someone 1:1 in school from the schools trust board.
I haven’t been in touch with VS.
I’ll look them up