When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

One of our best reporters, on a channel with no brief for Israel:

“Some reports suggest that some of the victims may have been decapitated but really such a horrific level of violence was used, the bodies are in such a bad condition that it’s hard to know if it’s true or not.”

https://x.com/Channel4News/status/1711817847800811810?s=20

Hamas and everyone in Gaza are absolutely not the same thing.

Collective punishment of civilians is a war crime, theres no denying it.

The last open crossing into Egypt has been closed after being hit by an Israeli air strike.

The intention is obviously to starve a whole people, men, women and children of water, food, power and even medicine.

I know all the reasons and justifications but it doesn't alter the facts that Israel is also carrying out a war crime.

I sincerely hope that the West is putting heavy pressure on Israel to open a humanitarian corridor.

When Hamas were formed in 1987, they had minimal support from Palestinians. But in 2021, support for Hamas dramatically increased as AP News reported:

apnews.com/article/hamas-middle-east-science-32095d8e1323fc1cad819c34da08fd87

In 2022, respected Palestinian pollster Khalil Shikaki and his Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research (PCPSR) carried out a survey looking at Palestinian support for armed groups. Main takeaways below:

• 72% of Palestinians support forming more armed groups in West Bank

• in Gaza, 84% of respondents supported concept of armed groups taking NO orders from the Palestinian Authority. This is HIGHER than in the West Bank where 65% supported the idea.

www.pcpsr.org/en/node/924

So, the support for Hamas, Lion's Den and other Palestinian armed groups is there from the Palestinian population. A minority do not support them.

At the same time, Palestinian support for the Fatah party led by President Abbas in the West Bank has collapsed to as low as 14%. Abbas is struggling to keep control of the Palestinian Authority territory in the face of support for armed groups such as Hamas.

Important to note that Abbas' Fatah party also has an armed wing - Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade. So, there is a LOT of Palestinian support for terrorist groups overall.

So, not all Palestinians support Hamas. But it is NOT wrong to say that Hamas have the majority Palestinian support. That may or may not change in future.

A leaked video from 2001 shows Israeli PM Netanyahu talking about how Israel intentionally strikes Palestinians “painfully”, how he deceived the US to break the Oslo Accords, and how Americans will always support Israel if it faces backlash.

https://twitter.com/trtworld/status/1711750682733355146

@mids2019 John Lennon? The very same John Lennon who verbally abused Protestants and British soldiers in song?

The same John Lennon who said he's with the PIRA?!

Honestly, Lennon isn't a very good example and he also didn't really understand the Troubles. His Aunt was furious with her nephew for donating money to NORAID, a PIRA front based in the USA. Of course, Yoko Ono tried denying he'd done that.

Because of that and Macca's misguided sing he later regretted, the Beatles couldn't play in Northern Ireland from 1969 onwards. They were in Belfast in 1964.

See how you can find terrorist sympathising useful idiots in unlikely places?

I appreciate your sentiments, but there are singers with peace songs who never supported a terrorist group. "Heal The World" would be a better choice.

The truth is the Jews want to purge the Palestinians because apparently the land is theirs

Israel as a state doesn't claim all of the Palestian territory. It pulled out of Gaza. Why pull out if they claimed all the land?

It's Hamas that claims all the territory. It's Hamas that has openly admitted that their own side stole the land in religious warfare, and that's their "justification" for violence.

Hamas didn't instigate this, Hamas is reacting to 70 years of persecution, and there is only so much a people can bare, and although in bad taste, it's not difficult to see why they would do that.

Oh please. "Bad taste"? You mean deranged savagery.

If they want to break out and attack the IDF, go ahead. If they want to kill unarmed adults that's one thing, no matter how awful, but to butcher children and babies is disgusting beyond belief. There is no excuse for what they have done at all.

No, your lies are only horrifying because they’re used to incite violence against Jewish people.

Going back 4,000 years Israel is the land of the Israelites. Palestine received land in a unilateral effort to make peace and instead chose to launch its genocide against the Jewish people.

Rape, beheading babies, kidnapping holocaust survivors and threatening to execute hostages is ‘perfectly understandable?’

did you know support for Hamas is against British law. I hope Mumsnet hands over your IP. Hamas and their Palestinian supporters have committed crimes against humanity, and they will be prevented from continuing their genocide attempts.

Posters speaking out against Israel, what do you want Israel to do? What's your solution?

Stop try to justify the murder of children. It's disgusting.

"Understandable"
"Bad taste "

I've read some disgusting posts the last few days but this is in a class of its own

You are excusing terrorism

Sick, sick post

Go back to 1967 borders as a start as per UN resolutions - gather a peace conference of everybody who will come, build a bloody big wall between 'original' Israel and Palestine and get Arabs and any others willing partners to rebuild Palestine with joint security agreements. Put pressure on Turkey and Qatar to stop supporting Hamas and start supporting the new peace initiative. And ratchet down the furies to allow these peaceful branches to grow. Oh, and get Bibi out, Trump like he is part of the problem - use the courts to get him locked up. Maybe ?

Imagine every single muslim person in a western country ( western europe, usa, canada, australia, new zealand etc.) and they were allowed to take over the island of Great Britain and establish a secular state comprising solely of westernised muslims with a 10% radical percentage in the mix as well.

You forgot the bit where the Muslims had a historical connection to this island for centuries and many of them lived here already. Not to mention where many Britons decided to stay where they were and got along fine. (You have heard of Israeli Arabs?)

Will Hamas accept that?

Looking like the IDF wants to burn the whole of Gaza down with phosphorus bombs- Bomber Harris would be proud. https://twitter.com/RebelTaha/status/1712158973208478118

No, and this talk of ‘Arabs’ is ridiculous. What does that mean? Druze? Mizrahim? Arab Christians? None of whom want to live anywhere but Israel. Several of the ‘suggestions’ that Israel negotiate with terrorists come from very western, poorly informed understandings of the region.

Isolate Hamas Israel shows magnanimity, Qatar and Turkey are forced to choose peace. Third party country Norway ?? acts as honest broker. Not going to happen, but that is how it could in a less imperfect world.

A UN corridor only allows Hamas to sustain the war for longer. It won’t benefit the people of Gaza, it will only allow the elongation of bloodshed. It is a difficult situation, where no outcome smells great, but we’ve learnt the hard way this week that allowing Hamas to continue and drag things out isn’t good for anyone

My DH is a chemistry professor, other posters can verify this. He is 100% certain that that isn't phosphorus bombs. Phosphorus burns in a very distinct way, and that isn't it.