When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

Israel is not committing any war crimes, unlike Gaza. Those people have only been cut off from supplies provided by the people they want to exterminate. The Rafah crossing is open, and supplies are going in. If Hamas are not prioritising civilians getting supplies, that’s a Gaza problem for them to resolve internally. Egypt don’t want a humanitarian corridor because they don’t Gazans in their country creating more terror problems for them. They don’t want to elongate the suffering and war by allowing this to drag on. The people who knew this would happen - Hamas - could have stockpiled. If they aren’t being responsible in their warfare, Gazans can absolutely act to overthrow them. If they don’t, clearly it’s not an issue for them.

Are you this vocal about the ‘war crime’ of not trading with North Korea, out of interest?

Most financial support comes from Qatar, who consistently support terror worldwide but enjoy a bizarre free pass for some reason. We shouldn’t have relations with sponsors of terror.

https://m.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu defended Israel’s regular allowing of Qatari funds to be transferred into Gaza, saying it is part of a broader strategy to keep Hamas and the Palestinian Authority separate, a source in Monday’s Likud faction meeting said. Netanyahu explained that, in the past, the PA transferred the millions of dollars to Hamas in Gaza. He argued that it was better for Israel to serve as the pipeline to ensure the funds don’t go to terrorism.
“Now that we are supervising, we know it’s going to humanitarian causes,” the source said, paraphrasing Netanyahu.The prime minister also said that, “whoever is against a Palestinian state should be for” transferring the funds to Gaza, because maintaining a separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza helps prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state....

Nobody wants the people of Gaza to suffer - that's absolutely not what I'm suggesting.

I'm pointing out that yummyscummymummy01 implying that it is Israel's actions which cause the animosity - now and in the future - and that if Israel would just do 'xyz' or not do 'zyx', then they wouldn't be attacked - is false.

This guy is doing a misinformation thread on Twitter for those concerned about fake videos.

https://x.com/Shayan86?t=kPUNj0L9I-h63xGln0Ii9w&s=09

@Asthebellcurves the UN Secretary General has explicitly stated the blockage is a war crime

The open secret is that there are non-humanitarian payments going through still. Even though Bibi did a good thing forcing Qatar to allow Israel to inspect goods before handing to Gaza, there is an underground terror economy funded by Qatar too.

Bibi has also had the idea that a wealthy Palestine is a peaceful Palestine so they invest a lot in SMEs and development in the West Bank. He’s been a lone soldier in that fight - and I think he will find it hard to continue that policy after this.

I thought it was a good policy when I worked in Israel and Palestine, but it doesn’t change perceptions or generate any broader friendship. To be honest, it has the same impact as Settlements: local Palestinians who get the financial benefit of the work love them, everyone else who didn’t get the ‘chance’ hates them.

To be frank, the UN don’t decide what a war crime is. People at the UN with a long history of anti-Israel sentiment don’t make that decision, thankfully.

But the IDF tell them it’s not. So who ya gonna believe?

Well, I can't say if it's a war crime or not. I'm not knowledgeable enough about the situation, or the law.
But I would say that the IDF isn't who I'd listen to on the matter, since obviously they'd say it isn't. I also wouldn't listen to Hamas, since obviously they'd say it is.

Why are you pretending that Israel is the only country on Earth with fuel and food for sale? That’s very strange of you.

I assume you’re horrified by the West’s trade sanctions on Russia, as it’s ‘denying necessities’ in exactly the same way?

Ah so now the UN, in fact anyone that doesn't support the extreme collective punishment of more than 2 million people are the bad guys?

Relief workers, doctors, nurses, mothers, children, babies...all terrorists that deserve to suffer?

I think anti-semitism, which is what it is when you single out Israel for something you don’t take issue with any other country doing, is - is bad. Don’t you?

As always, you’re not actually engaging with the point in good faith. The UN doesn’t determine what a war crime is, it’s not their remit. There is no collective punishment, you just want to force the Jewish people to provide for the people who seek to exterminate them, instead of forcing Hamas to prioritise supplies that are entering Gaza for civilians. Do you always blame victims?

someone said up-thread that the US are trying to persuade the Egyptians to open a humanitarian corridor.

Could one of the knowledgeable posters on here give their opinion on whether Israel is likely to support that?

It seems that it would need to be through Egypt rather than Israel, given that Israel has been working to close off gaps in the border to stop armed militants who were still entering Israel to kill people and who would presumably use any humanitarian corridor through Israel as an easy access route.

What would happen to the people of Gaza if Egypt did set up such a corridor, presumably setting up refugee camps in Egypt? What would then need to be done before they could return? Israel talk about removing the terrorist infrastructure, which I think of as all the weapons and rockets - eg rockets stored inside schools. But it must also mean groups of terrorists. Is there any way to stop them from evacuating alongside civilians and then just coming back?

Egypt doesn’t want Palestinians. They won’t have camps there..

Yes, it's terrorism. And it's bloody awful.

#standingwithinnocentcivilians

@Asthebellcurves absolutely. The hypocrisy around this is huge and definitely stems from subtle anti-semitism - of course some won't recognise that and very few would admit it. But you're right, that's the only difference here.

The situation is awful for all innocent people involved. I hope some kind of peace can be found.

@McNooghty your inability to see the situation more broadly and analyse your views is sad. Actually, it's bigoted.

you just want to force the Jewish people to provide for the people who seek to exterminate them, instead of forcing Hamas to prioritise supplies that are entering Gaza for civilians

Could Hamas do that at this point? Genuine question.

Someone has said that the border crossing with Egypt closed when there was an Israeli air strike on it - although I had also read earlier that Egypt closed it. If Hamas put their efforts into sourcing supplies and getting them through Egypt into Gaza, could they do it? Would Egypt reopen the crossing to let them through? I know it's 2 million people but it's a tiny geographical area, so distribution within Gaza seems possible - although presumably roads are destroyed and there are rockets falling everywhere. If Hamas (who are still Gaza's leaders and responsible for their citizens) did bring in supplies, would Israel consider temporary ceasefire to allow distribution to local supply drops?

This will be challenging for Israel, as it will allow Hamas to slip out of Gaza and force civilians to face the conflict alone. There is no way to reliably stop Hamas exiting via any such corridor. The way to get a good deal would be exchange the hostages for a 6 hour cease in strikes where UN workers can enter Gaza, provide fuel directly to generators of hospitals and perhaps remove children under fighting age. Hamas recruits what we would consider young children, so the age cut off would be quite low.

Egypt will decline any resettlement of Gazans, they are scarred by a decade of terror attacks in Egypt that Gaza provided cover for. Palestinians are actually perceived much more poorly in Muslim states than in Israel, so it would be a very unwelcoming environment.

Article here about the bombing: https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-to-bomb-rafah-crossing-to-egypt-after-telling-gazans-to-flee-through-it/

There are 50 trucks of aid waiting to come across from Egypt to Gaza.