When does terrorism become war?

[mids2019]

Looking at the news this morning I think the media are finding it difficult to register Palestinian attacks as a terrorism event or simply an attack of one state against another.

I suppose whether you view 5000 tickets as a terrorist atrocity or a declaration of war is dependent on your views on whether Palestine can ever be a functioning state. We plainly in Europe would describe such events as terrorism in that civilian populations have been targeted but in the eternally challenged middle East the use of such a word has political connurtations.

Is this a terrorist attack on Israel?

Hm. All Palestinian civilians have been advised by Israel to leave Gaza, which is a grim warning. Not entirely sure how they can do that.

(oh, and, from upthread, I believe the crossing point into Egypt is controlled by the IDF - that’s why people sometimes - rightly or wrongly- describe Gaza as an open-air prison.)

Do you understand the logical fallacy of "That's biased!" you're directing at that specific channel is an error in reasoning since a particular bias does not mean a person or group is wrong?

That's why it's a logical fallacy. It's not even an attempt at argument.

I don't think it matters WHEN large numbers of Jews left various Arab States. What matters is WHY they left, especially as you said they "were happy"?

Clearly, large numbers of people don't move in that manner out of happiness. Threats or fears of intimidation can be more than enough.

So, a problem was already there at the point many started leaving.

Heard that on the British news: a bit of a misrepresentation. Bibi warned Gaza's residents to leave sites where Hamas and PIJ (and other terrorist groups) shelter - not Gaza entirely. The statement in Hebrew was clear, and it's been translated correctly to Arabic.

Rafah Crossing is managed by Egypt, not Israel. They do often take advice from Israeli intelligence, but only the Egyptians and Palestinian Hamas government can close that border crossing.

Really hoping your friend stays safe.

It's horrifying that innocent civilians are being targeted whatever side they are on.

The myth of the invincibility of Israeli intelligence has well and truly been laid to rest maybe Bibi has spent too much filling his own boots and destroying his own people to see the rise of the power of Hamas. The Palestinians have nothing left to lose. Where there is no justice there is no peace.

From 2021, but it makes the point that Egypt controls its side of the border crossing from Gaza.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/10/egypt-opens-rafah-border-crossing-with-blockaded-gaza-strip

Egypt can decide to open or close it. It seems they have certain conditions that must be respected by Palestinians.

@Kalister

"Stop rocking the boat. You need to embrace the narrative, my friend.

Israel is good. Palestinians, not so much.

You didn't seriously think wrong thought was tolerated here, did you?"

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Nah wrong thought is indeed tolerated here, what is not tolerated is sympathising with terrorists kidnapping women and children.

Upthread someone said they were still at the top of their game, but from what I see, this is genuinely their 9/11 for how inept Mossad and the IDF have come off. There is nothing in their history that rivals this own goal.

And while the IDF may have technological advantages yet to go in play, we can all ask how well that worked for the US Army in the Middle-east.

What a quagmire.

Just as well my sympathies lie with the people who had their lands taken then.

Funny how much hand wringing is made of the Israeli incidents today, but not the literal decades of Palestinians being bent over a barrel.

Sorry that a cornered dog bit the master. Maybe they should learn from this.

Or air strikes on hospitals

@FloweryName

"It’s not terrorism, it’s resistance.

It's what happens when people live under occupation in their own country."

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Kidnapping women and children is not resistance it is terrorism and the whole world can see it.

Any sympathy there was for the Palestinian cause is evaporating by the hour and they are becoming global pariahs.

The thing is the Israelis will strike back which will harm ordinary Palestinians and most people will think that they brought on themselves .

@Surplus2requirements

"Or air strikes on hospitals"

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The thing is after today's events showing on camera women and children being kidnapped there is very little sympathy around the world for the Palestinian cause.

No-one is saying that- as you know. People are just expressing horror at the atrocities that have taken place today. As you know.

It's a horrendous situation.

I cannot condone Hammas, but Israel has behaved appallingly towards the Palestinians.

I have no idea what the answer is but my sympathy is with.the ordinary Palestinians who are going to suffer horrendous consequences as a result of this

Maybe the US has been distracted using much of their intelligence bandwidth to help Ukraine, ultimately capacity is finite. Some of the videos on X are horrific and show the initial invasion as pushing at an open door. And it looks like they are using drones to destroy tanks and armoured vehicles just as in Ukraine.

So glad you posted this.

Israel is a colonist settler state. Palestinian's have every right to want their country back. The fact the western media stands with colonisers doesn't surprise me tbh.

Ultimately , European Jews were gifted land by countries that had no right to gift it and since then have done their best to drive out indigenous populations. Its disgusting. I stand with 🇵🇸

Do you have any sympathy to spare for the Israeli woman who was videoed being dragged, handcuffed, out of a jeep by members of Hamas, with blood and faeces all over the crotch of her trousers?

War crimes are war crimes no matter whether they are in retaliation.

The way I see it is there are extremists calling the shots here, Hamas and extreme right wing Israeli gov.

Ordinary people both Palestinian and Israeli are the ones who suffer the most.

I weep for the ordinary people on both sides caught up in this and condemn the extremists on both sides that revel in it and try to shut down rational debate.

@ADiT , practically the entire world is condemning this act of Antisemitic terrorism. Are not those who support it anti Semetic and terrorists?

Where did Judaism originate?

... you do realise that Ashkenazim are still from Israel right? That's kind of the whole 'Jewish' thing. And Jews were there before Muslims, and that's why this argument isn't even used by the PA in negotiations because it's a losing point. Also, muslims and christians - arabs and europeans - all live peacefully in Israel. The only place that has apartheid is Palestine, where Jews are unable to go.

But sure, stand with your poorly informed arguments and terrorist sentiment, and let us all know you don't know what you're talking about. The only occupation is the one Palestinians did to Israel today, and they will pay a heavy price.

You keep on repeating that. I see there is still plenty of people/leaders/media organisations/organisations left with the ability to see the Palestinians for the innocent victims they are.

If anything, the attention is stronger on the cause of Palestinian civilians.

Do you have any sympathy to spare for the Israeli woman who was videoed being dragged, handcuffed, out of a jeep by members of Hamas, with blood and faeces all over the crotch of her trousers

Or the girl whose half naked body was paraded on the back of a Jeep as Hamas jeered and spat on her body. She's now been identified as a German who was in Israel for a peace music festival.

There is no excuse for this. Hamas are fucking savages and they do the Palestinian people no favours at all.

I wonder how many people with strong opinions on this thread have ever actually been to Israel or Gaza? Ever met an Israeli or a Palestinian? Ever properly looked into the history of all this instead of just churning out stuff they read online?

Judging by the simplistic views being expressed, very few I suspect. ☹️

@JuvenileEmu yes of course I do. Saying I have sympathy with ordinary Palestinian people doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for individual Israelis. It's not binary.