Ukraine Invasion: Part 41

[MagicFox]

Welcome to thread 41 with new guidance thrashed out with regular posters to keep us on track :-) Hope you all approve!

1. The agreed purpose of the thread is for the sharing of information and commentary on current events

1. If you post a link please tell us where it leads/give a precis of the content

1. Discussion and debate is welcome, but please keep it respectful

You want to start a direct confrontation bertween NATO and Russia? Are you insane?!

All great superpowers are exactly the same, in the way of greed, in the way they act, in their psychopathic pursuits. They are also unaccountable to war crimes, genocides past and present, colonisation, racism, poverty. To see it as the good guys vs the bad guys is cable tv simplistic.

Not stopped most people on here and elsewhere, it seems. Funny how things like the US blowing up dams in the past is okay, but without any actual evidence for what happened yesterday, many are quick to condemn. Like they have an agenda.

I also hate that people are talking about upping the ante, like anything short of sending NATO into the fray is a sign of weakness. Yeah, great idea. Let's get more death and destruction on top of what's already befallen the poor bastards in Ukraine.

Guessing none of these armchair generals have family in the army like I do. Wonder if they'd change their mind should they get drafted, like the 60k women now being taken to the frontlines in Ukraine since a massive chunk of their men have already been made KIA or WIA.

This whole sorry affair is depressing the fuck out of me.

I've just come across this.

It’s from some months ago… still stands though

No Ukrainian women have been drafted, they are volunteers fighting an invader in their country.

There is one reason and one reason only for all the death and destruction.

Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. That's it, one order from one man.

If he ordered them back it would all stop.

@FructoviPresse I guess you haven't been following these threads. Most of your comments there have been addressed in the last 40 threads. Threads that wouldn't have been needed if Putin hadn't sent troops into Ukraine, that wouldn't be needed if he pulled them out.

This wanton destruction is so unnecessary and sad. All those lives lost for one man's ego. It's understandable that people are shocked, disgusted and wanting to vent. The person that upped the ante is Putin, and he could easily end this needless loss of life by pulling his troops out. They will be leaving one way or another, either voluntarily or by force. The destruction of the dam will achieve nothing and harm many.

Anger is appropriate.

I know, it just seemed especially apt today.

Doesn't change that they are being sent to the front and that all men of working age have been drafted and any AWOL, sent back to the trenches to valiantly die for their country. This stuff we all fawn over being ridiculous during Armistice Day? We seem to be all for making more Ukrainians die. And don't say they all willingly are doing it. That's a lie. They are being forced to, like the typical toxic masculinity I see daily, except it's celebrated in a war.

Putin could order them all back, sure. He's not gonna, because the man absolutely isn't going to take that L. And the West isn't either, so we just keep throwing more men into the front and hope the bigger nation with the bigger army collapses first? Yeah, that doesn't work for me.

And this is why I have a depression.

I'm happy to admit that I have an agenda. I want Russia to fuck off back to Russia and Putin and his minions to be sent to the Hague.

I only followed this one because of the dam. I have a brother in the Paras and a younger sister about to pass out at Halton. I appreciate their choices to be in the forces. I cannot stomach the gung ho military bravado they regularly go on about, even if they are my flesh and blood. I am a weirdo flower power type. Each to their own.

I hate what is going on and I hate anyone bringing up the prospect of WWIII because they're now caring about a thing that has already happened in this war. Yes, Ukraine has already blown a dam up. Did we start WWIII then? NO!!!

So what do you suggest then? Ukraine just roll over and allow Russia to rape and pillage their country?

I know what I don't suggest: World War. If you think the killing more people thing is a great idea, I'm sure you won't mind signing up to help that cause.

Count me out!!! Both sides need to see reason and get to negotiating a peace. what other ending is possible? Everlasting war?

Meanwhile in the real world ...

@FructoviPresse there is a wide range of experience in these threads, including military. No one is pushing for WW3 (though I think we can argue it’s here already) we’re simply discussing the options available to Ukraine who by the way in case you haven’t noticed are the victims here.

As above I have an agenda and it’s to see Ukraine liberated and at peace.

Oh gosh here we go again.

If you think the killing more people thing is a great idea, I'm sure you won't mind signing up to help that cause.

Yes of course we think that. It’s written through all these threads like Blackpool through a stick of rock. We’re all rampant warmongers. How clever of you to notice.

@FructoviPresse you need professional help if you have a depression, this thread is not a place to project your paranoia.

And you are very very wrong Ukrainians, their resolve and motives.

And I find it offensive that you referred to them as the “poor bastards”. You don’t just rock up to a thread that’s been going since day one of this war and start pushing YOUR agenda.

You made the statement about women being drafted not me. The ones being sent to the front are going there volunterily to defend their country from an unparalleled act of aggression in recent times.

Children are being abducted, women raped, widespread torture and killing of civilians and now a dam used as a weapon of mass destruction.

Why?

It's not because Ukraine is defending itself, its because Russia invaded.

Am I angry?

Fuck yes I'm angry

I am sorry my not wanting to pursue war is naïve.

How do you think this plays out? What ending is there outside of negotiated peace? Either Russia loses or Ukraine loses. I would say we have all lost some measure already and I do not wish for more suffering.

These threads are a source of information and frankly to some comfort so please stop spouting uninformed, alarmist nonsense.

What nonsense is this? I am sorry I am in a state. I didn't see anything telling me what I could or could not post here.

So you’re in favour of appeasement. Didn’t work in the 1930s, isn’t going to work now.
Yes it would be lovely if Ukraine could sign a peace treaty with Russia and they would all go home and not bother Ukraine again. Except we know that Russia would be back for more in a few years. The survival of Ukraine is at stake and making out that anyone who thinks Ukraine has a right to survive is a warmonger isn’t going to wash.
Go and direct your understandable plea for peace at the people who support the invaders, not those who support the victims of invasion.

I don’t usually post, but I follow these threads for information and insights. The attack on the dam is horrific, and I want to do something to help. Is there somewhere I could donate? I think I donated to the Ukrainian government early on, but I don’t have the link any more. Thank you!

Yes MMBaranova shared this link on page 3 of this thread earlier https://u24.gov.ua/

Thank you

Shove your appeasement and bothsides-ism up your arse.