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Ukraine Invasion: Part 19

999 replies

MagicFox · 06/04/2022 20:38

Welcome friends, still going

OP posts:
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39
ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2022 17:53

Here is the video made by the Ukrainian soldier in Mariopol from the link within the Kevin Rothrock/ Medusa report RedToothBrush posted earlier 17:00

Viktoriya Radosh 🇺🇦 (@ViktoriyaRadosh) Tweeted: @Polk_Azov Subtitles: t.co/chxgfRhW7n

twitter.com/ViktoriyaRadosh/status/1513190878852100100?s=20&t=UHBT_vK6bDmNX4_DOCroTQ

ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2022 17:56

I forgot to say this video has subtitles. It is moving and heartbreaking.

eglantine7 · 11/04/2022 17:59

Oh I'm so sorry to the people of Mariupol 😢

Ijsbear · 11/04/2022 18:08

Quibbling over definitions of genocide is pissartistry.

The Kremlin have said that Ukraine as an entity has no right to exist and it has provably targettting civilians and deported tens of thousands.

UN definition of genocide, taken from www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

Note that the definition says 'any' of these, not 'all'.

items 1,2,3 and 5 are happening.

At this point it becomes clear that the UN does not -want- to call it genocide because then, goodness me, they'd have to do something. But as RTB says, that would mean having to reach an agreement.

eglantine7 · 11/04/2022 18:18

The UN are really bad at this. Who remembers the latest War in Sri Lanka and the killings and rapes of so many Tamils? They did nothing to stop the Sri Lankan army from committing mass atrocities.

blueshoes · 11/04/2022 18:44

[quote ScrollingLeaves]Here is the video made by the Ukrainian soldier in Mariopol from the link within the Kevin Rothrock/ Medusa report RedToothBrush posted earlier 17:00

Viktoriya Radosh 🇺🇦 (@ViktoriyaRadosh) Tweeted: @Polk_Azov Subtitles: t.co/chxgfRhW7n

twitter.com/ViktoriyaRadosh/status/1513190878852100100?s=20&t=UHBT_vK6bDmNX4_DOCroTQ[/quote]
Those are truly tales of immense courage, selflessness and self-sacrifice of of this soldier and those in Mariupol toiling ceaselessly to keep the invaders at bay and helped the injured and starving. We must help them, go to them, relieve them. Those are unimaginable conditions.

ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2022 18:46

I think if Genocide were to be recognised there would be a supposed obligation to prevent it:

Title
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Publisher
UN General Assembly
Publication Date
9 December 1948

Article 1

The Contracting Parties confirm that genocide, whether committed in time of peace or in time of war, is a crime under international law which they undertake to prevent and to punish

www.refworld.org/pdfid/3ae6b3ac0.pdf

ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2022 18:48

@ljsbear
Sorry - I had missed your post saying the same.

blueshoes · 11/04/2022 18:48

@Igotjelly

So Russian claims of destroying the anti-aircraft system are bullshit. Why doesn’t that surprise me.
Igotjelly thanks for posting that. I was a little concerned and that has cleared it up as Russian propaganda bs.
ScrollingLeaves · 11/04/2022 18:57

@blueshoes

Igotjelly
So Russian claims of destroying the anti-aircraft system are bullshit. Why doesn’t that surprise me.

Igotjelly thanks for posting that. I was a little concerned and that has cleared it up as Russian propaganda bs.

That is a relief. That seemed a terrible blow.

PerkingFaintly · 11/04/2022 19:06

Strictly, that statement is the US saying there is no evidence that they have seen that the anti-aircraft systems have been destroyed. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

But as Russia lies constantly, there's not much reason to think it has happened either.

MagicFox · 11/04/2022 19:07

What do we think is being prepared for by this statement by Russia? Suggestion that Britain is behind atrocities visited upon Ukrainians

twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1513575176797048842?s=21&t=e3_ZpdFLhTm4X2xpfKSVVQ

OP posts:
MagicFox · 11/04/2022 19:08

Sorry, behind statements that the Russians are responsible

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 11/04/2022 19:15

[quote MagicFox]What do we think is being prepared for by this statement by Russia? Suggestion that Britain is behind atrocities visited upon Ukrainians

twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1513575176797048842?s=21&t=e3_ZpdFLhTm4X2xpfKSVVQ[/quote]
No the way I read it is that some new atrocities are about the come to light and that they’ll be blamed on Russia by Ukraine and the UK.

Sky live feed seems to agree (I think).

Ukraine Invasion: Part 19
DGRossetti · 11/04/2022 19:19

Russians trying to double or even treble forces in Donbas

In a lot of situations that could reduce efficiency by 30-80%

Who the fuck ever thought the Russians were "smart" ? I'm less whelmed each day.

DuncinToffee · 11/04/2022 19:22

Kyiv Independent

EU delegation to Ukraine returns to Kyiv from Poland.

Several other European embassies had also returned to Kyiv after Russian troops withdrew from its vicinity in early April.

DuncinToffee · 11/04/2022 19:25

[quote MagicFox]What do we think is being prepared for by this statement by Russia? Suggestion that Britain is behind atrocities visited upon Ukrainians

twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1513575176797048842?s=21&t=e3_ZpdFLhTm4X2xpfKSVVQ[/quote]
Do they post this in every country they have an embassy in?

DuncinToffee · 11/04/2022 19:28

Croatia expels 18 Russian diplomats and 6 administrative staffers due to “brutal aggression and numerous crimes” committed by Russia in Ukraine — Foreign Ministry of Croatia

RedToothBrush · 11/04/2022 19:32

The Moscow Times @MoscowTimes
Moscow will start legal proceedings if it is declared in default by the West, its finance minister said after Russia was declared in "selective" default over the weekend
www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/11/russia-says-will-go-to-court-if-declared-in-default-a77310
by AFP

Russia last week paid its foreign dollar debt in rubles after it was unable to process the payment in foreign currency due to sanctions over Ukraine.

"We will go to court because we have taken all the necessary measures to ensure that investors receive their payments," Siluanov said in an interview with the Izvestia newspaper.

"We will present to the court our invoices confirming our efforts to pay both in foreign currency and in rubles," he said, without specifying which legal body Moscow would turn to.

Credit ratings agency S&P on Saturday said Russia had gone into "selective default" after it repaid dollar-denominated bonds that matured last week in rubles.

Morgan Stanley expected Russia to default on 15th April (prediction 10th March).

RedToothBrush · 11/04/2022 19:34

Interesting this bit in the same article actually:

For several weeks, Russia avoided the danger of a default, as the U.S. Treasury allowed the use of foreign currency held by Moscow abroad to settle the foreign debt.

However, last week the United States barred Russia from making debt payments using funds held by American banks.

The Russian finance ministry said Wednesday it was forced to make some $650 million in repayments to foreign debt-holders in rubles as they fell due on April 4.

Ijsbear · 11/04/2022 19:39

In all honesty, at some point the Mariupolan soldiers will be left for one reason:

Help cannot get through.

That is the only reason, because by God Ukraine has shown it will fight tooth and nail and with unbendable will. It has tried to evacuate people time and time again, and it has actually managed to send aid in against all the Russian obstructions.

But the end is coming, weeks later than all the trained observers thought. The soldiers who stayed knew that was going to happen from early on.

They have chosen to stay in their city and they have known that in the end the Russians will take that city. But they have held out far longer than humanly possible. When the last soldiers die, as they almost certainly will, they will die in desperation and pain but they will die having held out and they will not have died in pain, because the Russian army has had to pour far more resources into Mariupol than they ever expected. It's used up both physical resources, weopons and personnel that, had the Ukrainian soldiers not held, would have caused great damage elsewhere.

Their deaths have achieved something for the country they love, though your heart breaks for all the destruction.

Igotjelly · 11/04/2022 19:40

Russian intelligence seems to have been a bit shit anyway but surely all of these diplomatic expulsions must be wreaking havoc.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 19
RedToothBrush · 11/04/2022 19:44

Jack Detsch @JackDetsch
NEW: Ukrainian evacuation buses from Mariupol have allowed 150,000 residents to flee the besieged port city after 🇺🇦 negotiators managed to secure safe passage: top Zelensky advisor

Local officials estimate over 10,000 Mariupol residents have died during Russia's 42-day siege

Zelensky advisor Oleksii Arestovich said in a televised interview that residents of Mariupol could only leave by personal transport before.

Not sure what to make of this....

Igotjelly · 11/04/2022 19:46

@RedToothBrush

Jack Detsch *@JackDetsch* NEW: Ukrainian evacuation buses from Mariupol have allowed 150,000 residents to flee the besieged port city after 🇺🇦 negotiators managed to secure safe passage: top Zelensky advisor

Local officials estimate over 10,000 Mariupol residents have died during Russia's 42-day siege

Zelensky advisor Oleksii Arestovich said in a televised interview that residents of Mariupol could only leave by personal transport before.

Not sure what to make of this....

In what way? That you don’t believe it to be true?
blueshoes · 11/04/2022 19:51

@Ijsbear

In all honesty, at some point the Mariupolan soldiers will be left for one reason:

Help cannot get through.

That is the only reason, because by God Ukraine has shown it will fight tooth and nail and with unbendable will. It has tried to evacuate people time and time again, and it has actually managed to send aid in against all the Russian obstructions.

But the end is coming, weeks later than all the trained observers thought. The soldiers who stayed knew that was going to happen from early on.

They have chosen to stay in their city and they have known that in the end the Russians will take that city. But they have held out far longer than humanly possible. When the last soldiers die, as they almost certainly will, they will die in desperation and pain but they will die having held out and they will not have died in pain, because the Russian army has had to pour far more resources into Mariupol than they ever expected. It's used up both physical resources, weopons and personnel that, had the Ukrainian soldiers not held, would have caused great damage elsewhere.

Their deaths have achieved something for the country they love, though your heart breaks for all the destruction.

Amen. A suicide squad. Slava Ukraini
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