The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

[Damnloginpopup]

Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

[quote alltheapples]@Postdatedpandemic I know I have read and watched a lot about Ukraine over the last few days. But I do not trust Wikipedia as a credible source of information.[/quote]
If you don't trust the Wiki article perhaps you could just read the 632 references. Maybe one of them won't be the work of Russian apologist bots.

Alternatively Newsround is a good source.

@dreamscantcometrue

Will the people of Ukraine largely be going about their daily business? Working, food shop, visiting relatives, school etc?

They will to a certain degree, but if occupied territories are anything to go by, they will live under curfews like 22:00 - 06:00 and no more than 2 people will be able to walk together, this is to stop opposition forces getting together. Protests will be banned, a puppet government installed, regulated state media only.

It would basically be like living under indefinite martial law.

No wonder Ukraine is fighting back with all its might to oppose this.

@NNat yes I too have pointed out that what that poster is saying is not factually true.

@Postdatedpandemic I will stick to the Financial Times thanks.

I just read some tweets about Macron 's phone call with Putin...!

mobile.twitter.com/PedderSophie/status/1499391351829397506

"It was Putin who called Macron today, according to the Elysée. The call lasted an hour and a half. Macron told Putin: "you are lying to yourself". "There was nothing that Putin said that reassured us", a source in the presidency said. France is preparing for the worst"

mobile.twitter.com/PedderSophie/status/1499409342197608450

"More detail on the above: according to the same Elysée source, Putin expressed his determination to take control of all of 🇺🇦; his term was its "neutralisation"; he conceded nothing on humanitarian or diplomatic grounds; his objective is total capitulation"

Mark stone sky news:
🇷🇺🇺🇦🇫🇷 Some startling & grave details released by the Elysee on latest call between Macron and Putin.

Call lasted 1.5 hours. Initiated by Putin this time… an attempt to justify his actions to ‘rid Ukraine of Nazi regime’. [Thread]
Mark Stone*@Stone*_SkyNews·14m🇷🇺🇺🇦🇫🇷 Putin told Macron that if Ukraine does not accept Russian conditions by diplomatic path, they’ll be obtained militarily.
Putin claimed military operations will continue & are operating at rhythm that he wants, and that he’ll “adapt military operations as they went along”125Mark Stone*@StoneSkyNews·14m🇷🇺🇺🇦🇫🇷 Putin insisted to Macron that Russian army not targeting civilians (target of TV tower as example). “situation will get worse, but Ukraine chose it”13Mark Stone*@StoneSkyNews🇷🇺🇺🇦🇫🇷 Macron told Putin “he was committing a serious mistake, told him Ukraine was not the Nazi regime and that his visions of Ukraine was not confronting reality.” Macron told Putin “his actions would punish his own country and that he shouldn’t lie to himself.”3:36 PM · Mar 3, 2022 from Washington, DC·Twitter for iPhone1 Retweet6 LikesReplyMark Stone*@StoneSkyNews·14mReplying to @Stone*SkyNews🇷🇺🇺🇦🇫🇷 Elysee conclusion: “Putin made no new demands and wanted to reiterate his justifications for war and warned that the worse is yet to come. Putin’s goal is to take control of all of Ukraine.”
mobile.twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1499408434051129344

Russian oil giant Lukoil calls for halt to Ukraine war
twitter.com/afp/status/1499410431726731271?s=21

Lukoil is a massive company and has significant links to Putin government.

@HeadPain not reassuring is it? :(

[quote youhadmeatjello]@HeadPain not reassuring is it? :([/quote]
Not at all

I know a lot of people have been asking about war crimes, this is a good thread that explains the basics about international law and war crimes:

twitter.com/OPokalchuk/status/1499328463081070594

Yes that call readout is really worrying

God imagine having to listen to Putin for 1.5 hours

I suppose a tiny good thing about the phone all and I’m not sure it’s the right word is that he made no further demands or new threats.
However it sounds like he intends to take Ukraine at all costs.
Are the peace talks still ongoing?

Good on Macron for giving it a go but that last line is not good

Heartbreaking we can have a lovely no war etc world if everyone just stands up to the government who is supposing leading us 😢😢😢🙏

Russian state TV an hour ago
"Minister for sports and culture, how can our youth deal with the barrage of fake news coming from the West?"
"They should go to the park. Take guitars with them and sing songs. Step away from the screens"

Ridiculous and desperate... the propaganda machine is going at full pelt today, showing how worried the Russian government is and how difficult it is to suppress facts without complete control over the internet .

Those tweets are awful HeadPain. I felt sick reading them but I’m not surprised. I knew when the likes of Germany started sending weapons and increasing their military spending they must be very worried indeed. God knows what he’s got planned next. I’m just so sad for those poor Ukrainians stuck in the cities, they are going to get slaughtered.

I wonder how exactly France is “preparing for the worst” 😑

@dreamingbohemian

Yes that call readout is really worrying

God imagine having to listen to Putin for 1.5 hours

Someone has to be Good Cop to Liz Truss's Bad Cop I guess...

Putin is on a blinkered mission to obtain Ukraine, nothing will stop him except complete capitulation. The "peace talks" will come to nothing, because quite frankly why should Ukraine give up. Which means this war will wage on. He will have to impose significant long term military operations to "manage" Ukraine after its capture. It would be worse than living in North Korea for the Ukrainians left there.

At the rate of his shelling and bombardment he's about to turn it in to a wasteland. And I don't think he cares, a half empty country shelled to non existence will still be a victory for him. It isn't like Russia will have the money to rebuild it after either. What an absolute waste of human life, culture and history.

Absolutely unhinged!

Bitcoin refuses to do anything, so all the oligarchs are busy squirrelling away their ill-gotten gains into that.

@dreamingbohemian

Yes that call readout is really worrying

God imagine having to listen to Putin for 1.5 hours

Hitler also ranted for hours, fuelled by amphetamine.

I wonder if Putin, too is made paranoid by steroids or amphetamines?
It could help explain his intransigence.

Just catching up on the thread. Not a great update re the call with Macron.

I wonder if Putin is paranoid re being close to his beloved dogs? Would be great if one of them could be weaponised with some deadly poison just before a big cuddle session.

I’m a big dog lover (much prefer them to some people), but that dog would be a global hero/heroine!

@dreamingbohemian

Yes the war in eastern Ukraine has been ongoing since 2014, it has been an active war with many casualties, it just does not make the news over here.

People keep citing the 14,000 dead, the estimates are that it is almost 4000 civilian deaths and the rest split between Ukrainian and separatist militias.

It is frustrating to see people say that 'Ukraine should have sorted this war out a long time ago'. The only reason the separatists were able to create their enclaves and hang onto them is because Russia has given them a huge amount of military and economic aid, including troops on the ground. The only way Ukraine could have politically ended the war was to give those regions a huge amount of autonomy and influence over Ukrainian policy, i.e. giving Russia a huge amount of control over Ukrainian politics.

I am not saying the people in eastern Ukraine did not have valid grievances or were wrong to feel the way they do. But by putting their fate in Russian hands, they made it extremely difficult for this war to be resolved. And now here we are.

@dreamingbohemian I agree with some of that but how else would gain their Independence and protection? The ultra right Azov militia who then became the army battalion have been found guilty of human rights abuse/rape/torture against them. One of Azov leaders was made head of the police. That hasn't stopped human rights abuse continuing plus they took away those Ukrainians right to vote. How on earth was that ever going to bring about any resolution.

In normal times if I posted about the Azov battalion human rights abuse, shooting Greeks etc people would be horrified. Russia's invasion doesn't change the facts This has been happening for years in Ukraine and has contributed. As an side one of them when interviewed by the Guardian said Putin wasn't a Russian anyhow as he was a Jew.

@Dontbeamugallyourlifesucker

Can we in the West reach out to normal Russian family's (like you and me) an tell them the best way for them is to be like us westernised is good! You Russian family's are just like us😢 you need to be free 😥 Russian people don't need to be afraid we will.. Please its the only way forward to a lovely and free world.. You Russian people deserve this!

I know not everyone wants to be western and for some people ‘Western’ culture is decadent etc but I was surprised listening to the radio that the life expectancy in Russia is 10 years lower than the UK. I know there’s some poorer parts of Russia so it’s probably higher in Moscow etc but it’s such a beautiful country and with all those rich resources they really should be doing better for their people than spending it on brutal, unnecessary wars.

@Jux

Bitcoin refuses to do anything, so all the oligarchs are busy squirrelling away their ill-gotten gains into that.

Surely there will reach a point when they have to do something, though?

I keep recommending DW takes her savings out of there, because I honestly see it being heavily restricted soon. At which point everyone will putt their money out and it will be worth nothing (IANAE - I don't know how possible this is)