The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

Apologies if this is fake news, and feel free to correct me if this is demonstrably false! I’ve just read a Twitter thread from a Washington-based journalist who has family in Russia, where there are apparently ‘widespread rumours’ among the Russian population that Putin may soon declare martial law? If this is true, what consequences does this have, and would this make it near on impossible for Russians to protest (it’s evidently very hard to do so under the current autocratic situation anyway, but I’m talking imprisonment etc.) Would we see refugees trying to escape Russia?

Sorry, forgot the links:

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-snows-history-hit/id1042631089?i=1000552132104

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dan-snows-history-hit/id1042631089?i=1000552172007

I am very frustrated that MN do not monitor political threads

I think there should be some sort of timespan before members can post on political threads, a bit like the way the sex forum works- you can’t just join and post instantly. We’re not discussing strictly or teething here, and due to the size and popularity of MN in general I think these threads will be a target for those whose agenda is to spread propaganda, rather than discuss as most of us are.

What’s telling is that the whataboutery posts always come from a new or unrecognised user. Those with genuine posts (not always blindly agreeing though) are almost always names we all know on here.

@DGRossetti

We can't just strip people of citizenship, it's a lengthy process with tight rules on when this can happen.

Well it was, until Priti Patel simplified it.

While I understand the desire to tackle oligarchs I wouldn't want to live in a country that makes its easier to strip people of citizenship.

Too late. That ship sailed ages ago;.

Quite. Some people haven't been paying attention to what this government has been doing.

@tearsforfears72 It has been reported by the BBC that Russia may declare martial law. Obviously I have no idea if they will, but I assume the BBC have a reputable source for this.

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachineI have already answered your question. The UK before the Good Friday agreement that we are in the process of ripping up.[/quote]
you are answering my question to bohemium about which NATO countries have a dispute? I think that the civil war in Ukraine is on a different level if you look at the Guardian report, though similar, and the NI dispute is a great deal more historic - do you disagree?

Have you watched the Guardian video I linked?

@Alexandra2001

Except they aren't saying it's impossible. New laws and a new branch of enforcement agents are coming in. Keir Starmer has said Labour will support it

Err when?
It was expected last week, then this week... then we hear there is a 30 day advanced notice.... still no time table for legislation.

As @DGRossetti correctly says, there is no will to do this, just as there isn't on refugees, the Tories are wedded to Russian money/business interests, don't want it exposed and are as xenophobic as ever.

"We are bringing forward measures on unexplained wealth orders from the economic crime Bill, to be introduced before the House rises for Easter, and we will set out further detail before Easter on the range of policies to be included in the full Bill in the next Session, including on reforms to Companies House and a register of overseas property ownership. We will set up a new dedicated kleptocracy cell in the National Crime Agency to target sanctions evasion and corrupt Russian assets hidden in the UK, and that means oligarchs in London will have nowhere to hide." C+P from Hansard, see link, hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-02-24/debates/A76282B2-C1F4-4D00-B5E8-A8A0F2476FBB/Ukraine

twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1499368360903073798?s=21

This is the link to the thread I mentioned

[quote valerianaofficiana]@alltheapples you are correct, many posters are actively pushing Russian agenda, often asking naive questions that allow them to swiftly offer misleading information, very subtle and very dangerous as it's lapped up by others who have very little understanding of the situation.
So much historical misinformation, shaping the public opinion 🤬🤬[/quote]
Yes it is frustrating as some use MN to understand politics. But here they just get misleading information.

I don't care who anyone supports. But I think it is important that what is posted is factually correct.

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine your so called link to the Guardian does not work.

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine

Many Ukrainians speak Russian, either as a first or second language.

Some of them are ethnically Russian, or Russian-Ukrainian. Many of them are ethnically Ukrainian.

In eastern Ukraine, you have many people who either speak Russian or are ethnically Russian. Most of them did not join the separatists.

The separatists are not all ethnically Russian. But their regions have longstanding close ties with Russia and with the deposed leader Yanukovych.

You say you only just now even learned about this war. So it might be a good idea to read more about it.

@Lonelycrab

I am very frustrated that MN do not monitor political threads

I think there should be some sort of timespan before members can post on political threads, a bit like the way the sex forum works- you can’t just join and post instantly. We’re not discussing strictly or teething here, and due to the size and popularity of MN in general I think these threads will be a target for those whose agenda is to spread propaganda, rather than discuss as most of us are.

What’s telling is that the whataboutery posts always come from a new or unrecognised user. Those with genuine posts (not always blindly agreeing though) are almost always names we all know on here.

The same problem arose with the covid threads and to be honest the posters who don't change names are those who quite often aren't very well informed. I was posting on the covid threads early on recommending people have regard to good science, the leading experts in Hong Kong, supporting mask wearing and vaccination and remember quite a few discussions with some of the "regular"posters on here where they were initiially disagreeing with me... and the politics here is quite complex and quite a few of the "regulars" started out with very little awareness of wider world affairs so I think your proposition is unworkable.

Russians trying to flee Russia

A friend from Moscow is racing toward the border with the Baltics, has been driving all night—no plane tickets left. "We're trying to get there before the president's address to the nation," friend says, referring to widespread rumors that Putin is about to declare martial law.
twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1499368360903073798?s=21

There are also reports that significant numbers of Belarusians coming over the Polish border too.

Sorry xposted with tearsforfears72, fast moving thread.

Posters who are supposedly clued up on the issues surrounding the invasion but who refer to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" make me slightly suspicious. Call me paranoid but I do think there are bots ahoy on this thread?

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine please provide links that work linked to reputable sites.
Sorry I cant take your claims on trust because you have posted things already on this thread that I know are inaccurate.[/quote]
The US sent weapons to Ukraine in 2017 . There had been a long debate over it because of the ultra right wing battalion in the Ukraine army.
www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/lethal-weapons-to-ukraine-a-primer/

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine the first link you have said links to a Guardian newspaper video does not work. The second link is clear false news and if this was facebook it would be flagged as this by fact checkers. I am just reporting it to you tube.[/quote]
The first link does work.

The second link is to Vice News a channel owned by Shane Smith (20%) The Walt Disney Company (16%) A&E Networks (20%) TPG Capital (44%) Soros Fund Management (10%) James Murdoch (minority stake)

What are you going on about?

[quote dreamingbohemian]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine

Many Ukrainians speak Russian, either as a first or second language.

Some of them are ethnically Russian, or Russian-Ukrainian. Many of them are ethnically Ukrainian.

In eastern Ukraine, you have many people who either speak Russian or are ethnically Russian. Most of them did not join the separatists.

The separatists are not all ethnically Russian. But their regions have longstanding close ties with Russia and with the deposed leader Yanukovych.

You say you only just now even learned about this war. So it might be a good idea to read more about it.[/quote]
I only realised how horrific the sitaution was there after seeing the Guardian report, I knew about the war beforehand.

You are saying that you think that some separatists are ethnically Ukranian? Do you have a credible source for that? Because I haven't seen that. There are many ethnic groups in Russia though and so no, I am not certain.

I am not sure why you are arguing the toss over this, as I said, my post was to highlight conditions over there in the East from a humanitarian point of view, and to illustrate the problems around the Minsk agreement.

Claudine I agree.

@RedToothBrush

So Nadine Dorries has got all emotional about BBC journalism. Then mentioned ITV.

I may need some time to avoid ranting a lot.

go ahead. Your ranting is interesting and informative.

@jennywhitehorses

Has the Ukrainian government thought of ceding to Poland all the areas of western Ukraine that used to be part of Poland before 1939? Quite a large area including the big city of Lviv. Poland can say to Russia this is part of Poland now if you send your troops in here you will be at war with us and NATO.

Not that this would ever work but I like it : )

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine you keep talking about this Guardian report but in spite of me asking you to, you haven't posted a working link to it? Does it exist?

so I think your proposition is unworkable

It’s really very simple.

Have this person been posting 6 months +?

Yes: you can post on a political thread.

No: you can’t post on a political thread.

The same problem arose with the covid threads and to be honest the posters who don't change names are those who quite often aren't very well informed

What a load of tosh. There are posters on this thread whose names I have seen around for years who are intelligent and well formed.

www.cnbc.com/2017/12/23/us-officials-say-lethal-weapons-headed-to-ukraine.html