The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

Anyway, I'm trying to stay away from this side of things to a certain extent because I think it somewhat detracts from other more pressing issues which will pile on the pressure in a much more meaningful way

Yes I was just pondering how much this is political pressure from public v meaningful impact

Something like seizing a yacht is symbolic to the audience (us) whether it does much for Ukraine, not sure.

@Alexandra2001

Except they aren't saying it's impossible. New laws and a new branch of enforcement agents are coming in. Keir Starmer has said Labour will support it

Err when?
It was expected last week, then this week... then we hear there is a 30 day advanced notice.... still no time table for legislation.

As @DGRossetti correctly says, there is no will to do this, just as there isn't on refugees, the Tories are wedded to Russian money/business interests, don't want it exposed and are as xenophobic as ever.

I agree with this. They can do something, they just don't want to. So they will delay and delay and hope it all goes away.

@alltheapples

I am very frustrated that MN do not monitor political threads. If this was on facebook so many posts would be flagged as posting false news. The site is being over run by people posting Russian propaganda that is demonstrably false. The Financial Times and BBC have really good information about what is happening. Read there. You won't get anything good here.

Report the posts you see that you feel are incorrect or misleading.

I've noticed a few specific posters popping up on these kinds of threads. They have no posting history, only post very panicky messages about how terrified they are on these kinds of threads, put lots of emphasis on their poor innocent children and how will they protect them (on a parenting site this is bound to get empathetic fear responses from others) and then leave with no engagement whatsoever with posters who respond sympathetically or rationally, only to crop up on another thread where they post a very similar message (sometimes it's a copy and paste job) only to leave and never return when they've whipped a few people up. I'm just reporting them. They might be legit, in which case MNHQ can ignore me, but this is a big site and, whilst I'm sure Putin isn't aware of us, I'm absolutely sure that the bots are.

The Tories have a problem.

Nothing they haven't dealt with before.

1. Make a really big noise about the opposition
2. Make an even bigger noise about what you are "intending to do"
3. Forget 2
4. Remind the press of (2) and when they start digging and find (3) return to (1).

@MarshaBradyo seizing a yacht by itself does nothing. But each of these actions increases the political pressure. It is the sum of all actions that matters.

@alltheapples

I am very frustrated that MN do not monitor political threads. If this was on facebook so many posts would be flagged as posting false news. The site is being over run by people posting Russian propaganda that is demonstrably false. The Financial Times and BBC have really good information about what is happening. Read there. You won't get anything good here.

Surely it is possible to see if accounts here are new. If posters have been on here for years, it’s obvious they aren’t Russian bots.

If they were saying LTB years ago, or YANBUing even months ago, they aren’t “ Bots”.

Re false news - as far as I know Ukraine has received monetary and defensive aid in the last few years from the West - are people saying that this is false? I tried to find a mainstream link (BBC or similar) but everyting at the moment is about other war.

The second thing is whether false or not, the civil war would most certainly have affected whether Ukraine got membership of NATO and EU surely? It would be ridiculous to think otherwise?

The third thing is that the civil war looks horrendous from a humanitarian point of view and I think it is worth raising awareness of it - there is nothing false news about the fact that it was ongoing before the current war.

It is not 'the Russian speaking people' who have asked for Russian help. A huge number of Ukrainians speak Russian, especially in the eastern half, but only a small portion of the country went for violent separatism.

I have attached a map of the separatist republics before the last week. You can see Ukraine is such a huge country (the size of Western Europe) and the two separatist regions are a very small portion of this.

The Minsk agreements would have given those two small regions which are also now Russian proxies a huge influence on Ukrainian politics. So it is not hard to see why they have not been implemented.

@toastfiend yes I have reported. And Russian bots are very active on social media. This is well publicised and evidenced.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

Another superyacht seized. This time by the French. Belongs to Igor Sechin, one of Putin’s closest of confidantes.

That's good news, it's one way to put the pressure on.

Russia is facing war crimes investigation over Ukraine.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60597751?at_custom3=BBC+News&at_medium=custom7&at_campaign=64&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom2=facebook_page&at_custom4=3239B49A-9AC1-11EC-8D6E-5B6B0EDC252D&fbclid=IwAR3R1iynIxTIx2u01bhNUWh4fePmmHAgnBV8E08VFqA94u4FiMTlRS0CmEU

@DGRossetti

The Tories have a problem.

Nothing they haven't dealt with before.

1. Make a really big noise about the opposition
2. Make an even bigger noise about what you are "intending to do"
3. Forget 2
4. Remind the press of (2) and when they start digging and find (3) return to (1).

on point number 2) Its usually "This is what we are doing" only much later do we find it was "intending to do" by which time we have all forgotten what they said they are doing.

Its like Yes Minster was actually a documentary.

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine British firms sell weapons all around the globe to many countries. I do not agree with that. But selling weapons is not the same as the government backing a country.
The UK government have clearly backed Russia in the past as can be seen from many donations given, and honours handed out.[/quote]
In which case I think it is a bit misleading to say it what I said was definitely false news! Do you consider WION false news? Because there was a recent report about how much weaponry the West had put into the Ukraine in the last few years. This was not a contentious point, I thought, Russia was aware of it, it was not secret. By "the West" I am not sure which countries, I don't remember UK being mentioned. How do you think the Ukraine has been funding the civil war? I thought (and again I would struggle to find sources at the moment but I don't think this is false news) Ukraine has received a lot of financial help from the West?

certainly well over 52% by any metric

Which we were long ago told in no uncertain terms was a significant, inarguable majority. Of course, Tories will want it both ways... 🙄

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine
Northern Ireland did not stop the UK joining NATO.
You can't find any links for your claim but expect us to take it on trust?

@AuldAlliance I wasn't referring to you and puppies
If you can find a blow by blow account for Zelensky being a puppet of Trump it would be great because it is a horrible murky world full of unpleasant people. It needs a light shone on it.
You need to include in your search the Ukrainian Oligarch Kolomoisky and his links to Zelensky and Trump.

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine please provide links that work linked to reputable sites.
Sorry I cant take your claims on trust because you have posted things already on this thread that I know are inaccurate.

A fantastic statement from Russian anti-war feminists.

internationalviewpoint.org/spip.php?article7541&fbclid=IwAR0KpLHulO0iGgeYJAaZoSTStCHvLALDsgeRnL_W5_MKtAXd03HutM7G57M

@dreamingbohemian

It is not 'the Russian speaking people' who have asked for Russian help. A huge number of Ukrainians speak Russian, especially in the eastern half, but only a small portion of the country went for violent separatism.

I have attached a map of the separatist republics before the last week. You can see Ukraine is such a huge country (the size of Western Europe) and the two separatist regions are a very small portion of this.

The Minsk agreements would have given those two small regions which are also now Russian proxies a huge influence on Ukrainian politics. So it is not hard to see why they have not been implemented.

The Ukrainian language is not Russian and as you say many Ukrainians do speak Russian also. I thought it was people who were ethnically Russian and whose first language was Russian formed the separatists - are you saying that is incorrect? I am not sure what point you are trying to make, generally, though, what other EU or NATO country has a civil war of this scale going on within its borders? (I am not saying there isn't one, but I can't think of one)

The United Nations voted overwhelmingly to condemn Russian invasion of Ukraine.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/02/united-nations-russia-ukraine-vote?fbclid=IwAR3oBd40dXrViSswb4maoJxrh5c1kBv8mCmu8Ni75jgPmtVsdFi2lHi-ud4

@mybeautifulnewwashingmachineI have already answered your question. The UK before the Good Friday agreement that we are in the process of ripping up.

Has the Ukrainian government thought of ceding to Poland all the areas of western Ukraine that used to be part of Poland before 1939? Quite a large area including the big city of Lviv. Poland can say to Russia this is part of Poland now if you send your troops in here you will be at war with us and NATO.

If anyone wants to learn a bit more about the history behind current events I've just spotted that Dan Snow's podcast - titled "Dan Snow's History Hit" - dropped two episodes this week on the subject.

The first is titled "Ukraine & Russia: A Quick History Guide" and the second "Crisis in Ukraine: Putin & NATO". They're only about 20 mins each so I'm off to listen to them while I finish up my work.

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine please provide links that work linked to reputable sites.
Sorry I cant take your claims on trust because you have posted things already on this thread that I know are inaccurate.[/quote]
@alltheapples I think you are getting confused because I was clear what the sources were in my post and have confirmed since, but for completeness I will do so again if you clarify what you are talking about now.

1. What was inaccurate which you want verifying from a reputable site?
2. Do you consider WION to be a credible source? If you aren't familiar with them, have a good look as they are an award winning Asian news service.

I haven't made any claims I have posted two videos about a long standing dispute in Ukraine but that is by the by. I tend to go by credible sources myself and so if you are concerned by anything I am happy to provide the credible information which would satisfy you.

@alltheapples you are correct, many posters are actively pushing Russian agenda, often asking naive questions that allow them to swiftly offer misleading information, very subtle and very dangerous as it's lapped up by others who have very little understanding of the situation.
So much historical misinformation, shaping the public opinion 🤬🤬