The Invasion is ongoing...Part 6

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Things are ramping up. No end in site as yet.

Link to thread 5 here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?pg=1

Of course richer and well educated Russians are trying to get out too especially if they have family abroad who can help them financially (or if they already have foreign accounts - not sure how easy that is for a normal Russian but if you have kids in private schools here presumably they have accounts already). I doubt anyone with options fancies martial law and going down for the motherland for the sake of one man and his cronies’ vision.
Even I thought of leaving UK just for Brexit… couldn’t quite follow through though…

Well informed, although they may be well formed too...

@ClaudineClare

Posters who are supposedly clued up on the issues surrounding the invasion but who refer to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" make me slightly suspicious. Call me paranoid but I do think there are bots ahoy on this thread?

I'm sure there are, it would make complete sense - it's a well- known tactic, absolutely rife on other social media, and this is a well-known, busy, international site with multiple trending threads on the subject. I'd be amazed if it wasn't rife with bots, frankly.

Also agree with you re: "the" Ukraine.

@Bluebellsunderthetrees thanks for a working link. So the US in 2017 provided some weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves against Russsian back separatists, even though Trump was very reluctant to annoy Putin.

Ukraine jets hit the Russian column into Kyiv

www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/ukraine/2022/03/02/ukraine-jets-hit-russian-column-russia-has-used-thermobarics-ukraine-military-says/

Thank you to the other posters who are providing more information about what I posted.

@alltheapples I also provided the names of the videos so you can search them. The second video was footage, and an interview - I did make it clear that I wasn't sure about the source but someone else has provided info about it. I will find other credible sources in relation to supply of weapons to Ukraine later (I have to work now) and will post them for you.

Mumsnet has over 7 million* unique users per month, it would be daft to think the troll farms, of whatever origin, didn't target it on a regular basis.

*Mumsnet own figures - www.mumsnet.com/i/about-us

It is clear there are a lot of Russians against invasion of Ukraine.

How can he be having peace talks while still killing people?!

@supermoonrising

The views of people in Hong Kong are like likely to be far removed from those of people in the mainland.

As the world overwhelmingly condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the Chinese internet, for the most part, is pro-Russia, pro-war and pro-Putin.

As someone with thousands of WeChat contacts I can say that this is correct. Though I wouldn’t say “pro war” as such. The view is more that the West has unwisely goaded a military response out of Russia by being unwilling to put the Ukraine NATO/ EU issue to bed, and now everyone’s fucked.

Interesting that on the same thread I’ve heard from different posters that “Chinese people are completely unaware of the war” and yet “the Chinese internet is strongly pro war”. Fairly symbolic of the largely uninformed bullcrap we hear about China on a weekly basis.

@supermoonrising - although based in Hong Kong my nephew has many friends and colleagues based in China and also follows news from mainland China very closely so he is quite well informed.

I am just so angry after seeing the picture of the man holding his teenage son that was killed during a shelling yesterday, the poor man its just do awful.He must just want to die himself

I don’t support what is going on, I want to put that out there.

But, my faith in British media being factual was shifted considerably following Brexit and the campaign leading up to it. I also am related to people in Eastern Europe. And what jumps out is that NO news is the unvarnished truth.

The live action now is indisputable but who gave who money/weapons/info in the past. Who propped up what regimes, who ‘owned’ the land - that stuff is shrouded in misinformation from ALL sides. It doesn’t make this ok, but please, stop citing Russian propaganda when someone tries to point out a different perspective on perceived wrongs. No, this invasion is never, ever justified, but let’s not become who we’re reviling and get insulting at different ideas being put forward.

Many people (no, I don’t have a link, a report or a %, just my experience in those countries and with some of the people) do have a view (weird though it may be to western ears) that things were better in the soviet years, they speak about Gorbachev like some speak of Blair, and they see the west as being the authors of the unstable world. That’s their lived truth, it isn’t ours, but it’s a bit arrogant just dismissing how they feel.

And whilst we of course unreservedly denounce this attack, if we don’t start to try to understand the mindset, if not agree, then there will be no peaceful solution. It doesn’t matter who starts it,what matters is who, and how it is ended.

@Lonelycrab

I am very frustrated that MN do not monitor political threads

I think there should be some sort of timespan before members can post on political threads, a bit like the way the sex forum works- you can’t just join and post instantly. We’re not discussing strictly or teething here, and due to the size and popularity of MN in general I think these threads will be a target for those whose agenda is to spread propaganda, rather than discuss as most of us are.

What’s telling is that the whataboutery posts always come from a new or unrecognised user. Those with genuine posts (not always blindly agreeing though) are almost always names we all know on here.

That’s a good idea. Agreed, I recognise certain names on here, I’m not a paying member, so can’t see info about other posters. The tiny minority of the population that will read and be influenced by these threads are pretty insignificant, I’d think , but bottom line for most of us is that we don’t want War to escalate, as WW1 and WW2 did.

It’s appalling what’s happening, no one sane would agree with an invasion by Russia.

@alltheapples

It is clear there are a lot of Russians against invasion of Ukraine.

Indeed! Which makes it all the more extraordinary that you reacted as you did to the post about the civil war in Ukraine.

@ClaudineClare

Posters who are supposedly clued up on the issues surrounding the invasion but who refer to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" make me slightly suspicious. Call me paranoid but I do think there are bots ahoy on this thread?

Well I have received an unsolicited message from a user I don't know, who I don't think is posting on this thread saying "I can see your agenda"

If you are reading this I don't have an agenda I am just reading all round a subject that apparently we might be dragged into a war over. Which if people saw my Covid posts would know I do. But I guess you don't like my post about Nazis

If we are scared of Putin launching nuclear weapons what stops him entering NATO territory and getting away with it? Will we/NATO actually respond if he did so, or will we let him do it because we're scared he'll launch nukes in response to us defending NATO? Yeh, we've got nukes too of course, but I don't think we could use them. How would that work anyway? Definitely wouldn't do first strike would we? Hear rumours he going to do it, so we do it first? No way. Doing after... well everyone would be fucked already? Nothing good would come of nuclear war. So what's the point in NATO at all when nukes exist? or how can any country defend themselves against a nuclear power with a leader terrible/mad enough to use it, or to let us think he'd use it. I don't think he would unless he really lost his mind. Surely not? Not over Ukraine, and I don't think over more territory in Europe either. Unless he really went mad.

Carole Cadwalladr
@carolecadwalla
The Germans are seizing yachts. The French are seizing yachts. Meanwhile, Britain is letting oligarchs quietly put their affairs in order before slipping out of the country. If you were furious about the Downing Street parties, you should be sick to your stomach about this

@SunshineCake1

How can he be having peace talks while still killing people?!

I don't know, but I'd assume because they're still at war until the peace talks come to a compromise that each side formally accepts, if that even happens. I agree that it seems barbaric but I suppose stopping for peace talks probably doesn't make tactical sense for either side in that it allows time for an enemy or opposing side to regroup and strengthen their position. That's very much just my opinion, though, I've got no firm knowledge on that score before anyone jumps on me.

Agreed, I recognise certain names on here, I’m not a paying member, so can’t see info about other posters

You don't have to be a paying member to see when someone joined, how often they post etc.

@HeadPain

If we are scared of Putin launching nuclear weapons what stops him entering NATO territory and getting away with it? Will we/NATO actually respond if he did so, or will we let him do it because we're scared he'll launch nukes in response to us defending NATO? Yeh, we've got nukes too of course, but I don't think we could use them. How would that work anyway? Definitely wouldn't do first strike would we? Hear rumours he going to do it, so we do it first? No way. Doing after... well everyone would be fucked already? Nothing good would come of nuclear war. So what's the point in NATO at all when nukes exist? or how can any country defend themselves against a nuclear power with a leader terrible/mad enough to use it, or to let us think he'd use it. I don't think he would unless he really lost his mind. Surely not? Not over Ukraine, and I don't think over more territory in Europe either. Unless he really went mad.

Yes I think we’ll act if he enters NATO country. Hard to prove of course but going by statements and sentiment, I’m very nervous about escalation but would support action if it happened (god I hope not though)

@Roussette

Carole Cadwalladr *@carolecadwalla* The Germans are seizing yachts. The French are seizing yachts. Meanwhile, Britain is letting oligarchs quietly put their affairs in order before slipping out of the country. If you were furious about the Downing Street parties, you should be sick to your stomach about this

Probably Bojo is BFF with some of the oligarchy.

Reading those threads that people linked to of people trying to get out of Russia before the rumoured martial law is declared. Urging friends abroad not to text them in case their phones are checked and they're declared to be enemies of the state.

@SunshineCake1

How can he be having peace talks while still killing people?!

Because it's not really peace talks. It's Russia saying we will keep invading and bombing and killing unless you give in to our demands. So Russia continue to do it to put the pressure on Ukraine to give in.

[quote alltheapples]@tearsforfears72 It has been reported by the BBC that Russia may declare martial law. Obviously I have no idea if they will, but I assume the BBC have a reputable source for this.[/quote]
The BBC is who I rely on most for "verified" information, as a now world broadcasting station it really does work hard to ensure its information is as accurate as possible.

People complain it's slower than other media outlets but I believe it's because of the due diligence it applies to its reporting.

Now I'm not saying it's perfect, but if you want "facts" it is one of the best. Opinion, meh that's a grey area but it's facts tend to be on point.

[quote alltheapples]@mybeautifulnewwashingmachine you keep talking about this Guardian report but in spite of me asking you to, you haven't posted a working link to it? Does it exist?[/quote]
You can either click on the link, which other people say works (make sure restricted mode is not on) or you can type the name of it into youtube search - okay? Let me know once you have watched it and we can chat again. In the meantime I will find my source about weapons in Ukraine. I don't mind all this questioning at all.