The Invasion is ongoing...Part 5

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Unbelievable to think that a few days ago the world was starting to look more positive..ye we find ourselves on a fifth thread discussing the horrors of the war in Europe. An unbelievable change has happened to the world we live in.

Some incredible firmed posts have been written, informing, discussing, and occasionally derailing. Let's hope the news is more positive by the end of this one.

I heard the convoy was there to besiege Kiyv?

@Muminabun

How is Abramovich squaring all this with being a Jew and Israeli citizen and also BFF and beholden to putin. I can’t imagine the awkwardness if he has to face peace talks with Zelensky another rather prominent Jew.

Because Jews don't all stick together all the time but also have national allegiances?

This is a good article re state news in Russia and use of language etc

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60571737.amp

It has instructed media outlets to use information only from official Russian sources when reporting the invasion, demanding that they take down any reports referring to "a declaration of war" or "an invasion".

It feels like the media (and everyone else) was obsessed with Trump and his tweets for four years when really, the man who has always been the real danger and threat to world peace was Putin.

Is anyone else struggling to keep composure and feel unable to do normal day to day things through fear?

I think for your own sanity @Logburning you have to dip in and out of this thread, and the news, and carry on with your life in the meantime. I know that's not an option for the poor Ukrainians, but for now, that's pretty much all we can do. 💕

Just watched Frank Gardner,
so what next?
if Russia takes Ukraine
will it then try Poland? and then we have to get involved,

@RedToothBrush

"Corrupt leaders have an infinity for each other. I can't say that Israel much want to have modern conversations about sovereigty and the right of self determination. Their history and their present really have two very different faces."

Which corrupt leaders are you referring to here? Bennett and Putin? Just wondering what corruption Bennett has been involved in? Extreme and right wing political views, yes. Corruption? No.

Israel has had MANY conversations about sovereignty and self-determination. That's what all the peace talks over the years have been about. If you're trying to draw a parallel between the conflict between Israel and Palestine with Russia invading Ukraine, in terms of violating international law, in terms of humanitarian crisis, then you're failing miserably in that regard. There is no comparison.

There's a horrific crisis unfolding in Ukraine and some posters still want to use it as a stick to beat Israel and hold it responsible.

@Logburning

Is anyone else struggling to keep composure and feel unable to do normal day to day things through fear?

You must. It's doing the normal mundane things that breaks that cycle of panic

@Logburning

Is anyone else struggling to keep composure and feel unable to do normal day to day things through fear?

i went out on monday, a long walk, away from the news, so refreshing

@Logburning

Is anyone else struggling to keep composure and feel unable to do normal day to day things through fear?

Yes, I'm trying hard to carry on but I'm in a constant state of panic, I'm not eating or sleeping. I feel like I can't concentrate at work

@Damnloginpopup

Also reports of a large number of ex-SAS and paras are headed that way.

Both are unconfirmed obviously

Nato is doing a display of force to Putin, so yes, there will be our soldiers going over there. That doesn't mean they're sending them in. They are there in case things escalate and Nato is brought into the war. Currently they are in the situation that if they send troops in that could be seen as declaration of war, and no one wants that.

@nonono1

It feels like the media (and everyone else) was obsessed with Trump and his tweets for four years when really, the man who has always been the real danger and threat to world peace was Putin.

Trump was a danger too; the difference was that he could be removed

Also, military types were saying from day one that there would be a lot of the SAS and special forces ‘on leave’ right now. We won’t know a quarter of it until this ends

@Logburning

Is anyone else struggling to keep composure and feel unable to do normal day to day things through fear?

yes its very difficult , i was serving a customer the other day who said how real it all suddenly felt to her , because they are so close to us , and nuclear weapons are potentially involved , its not just something taking place in the middle east that probably wont affect us anymore .

iv always found reading the news about any kind of war even those in the middle east like syria hard , but now its making me cringe just to load up the page .

we for once didnt have any ongoing war in the world per se and now this nightmare , it does all start to feel hopeless , short of someone taking putin out i hope there is a way this can be de escalated

It feels like the media (and everyone else) was obsessed with Trump and his tweets for four years when really, the man who has always been the real danger and threat to world peace was Putin.

Trump had no idea how to handle Putin either. He seemed overawed by him. Even a few days ago he was describing Putin's behaviour as 'genius'.

I have followed these threads and learnt a lot but to simplify:
The West can't help Ukraine because Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons?
Which could end everything. A risk we cannot take.
But that means Putin could threaten us again. He could, and I guess will, say, 'Lift sanctions, we have nuclear weapons,' and we would have to do.
He could say, 'Give me Europe, the Queen as hostage, give me the US, we have nuclear weapons' and what could we do but agree to his demands, since Russia' s honour is already gone. They've proved they can't be trusted.
What is the end of this? After Ukraine has proved his methods work so well?

@chaosrabbitland not sure what per se means in the context you have used it, but there are a number of horrendous conflicts and wars ongoing in the world currently, have a look at Yemen.

Very hard to see how this can be resolved.

strawberriesarenot I think NATO countries would have to get militarily involved as soon as Putin invaded one of them, nukes or not.

@Damnloginpopup

Also reports of a large number of ex-SAS and paras are headed that way.

Both are unconfirmed obviously

Got to be honest, i would be surprised if we didn't have SAS there. The British have been involved in training Ukrainian soliders for the last couple of years anyway. We have a long history of Black OPs being where we shouldn't be. There is plausible deniability too. Lots of foreign people based in Ukraine have stayed to fight and Zelensky made a call for foreign volunteers to join since. The British Government haven't really said 'no don't go' with any real force either. It wouldn't surprise me if this was also why Liz Truss's aggressive language got up Putin's nose. There is almost an international understanding that black ops is done, but the key is you don't get caught in a situation where it can be proved. Unlike Salisbury...

I think you have to ask why wouldn't we send SAS?

@BigHuff

Also, on the subject of escalation/de-escalation - that the US and Europe appear to have chosen a path of escalation (or at least, not chosen a path of de-escalation) means they must believe there is something they can achieve by following that path. Perhaps it is a chance to oust Putin, or maybe just to economically cripple Russia as much as possible. Or maybe the US arms industry needed a boost.

Did you read/see Biden's State of the Union address? He said there is more to come for Russia in terms of sanctions. How harsh will these become and what will they mean for ordinary Russians?

The West can't help Ukraine because Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons

Not really.

It's more escalation. If we engage Russian troops, we are at war with Russia.

We also have nuclear weapons. If he threatens us with weapons, what would we do? Threaten back.

But we don't want to get into a larger shooting war with Russia. It is basically a bully attacking an innocent person, and us helping a bit by attacking the bully's livelihood but not actually fighting the bully because we know how strong they are and we don't want that fight.

@cakeorwine

The West can't help Ukraine because Russia threatens to use nuclear weapons

Not really.

It's more escalation. If we engage Russian troops, we are at war with Russia.

We also have nuclear weapons. If he threatens us with weapons, what would we do? Threaten back.

But we don't want to get into a larger shooting war with Russia. It is basically a bully attacking an innocent person, and us helping a bit by attacking the bully's livelihood but not actually fighting the bully because we know how strong they are and we don't want that fight.

Yes, exactly. The bully is saying 'stand back and let me do this, or else..' and it has worked.

So surely the bully will do it again. Surely the next threat will be 'lift sanctions or else'

@bluewanda

This is awful

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10567285/Desperate-battle-flee-Kyiv-Thousands-fight-trains-capital.html

Probably a silly question, but why can’t the Ukraine just launch an aircraft and bomb the convoy to smithereens before it reaches Kyiv?

Because it's mahoooosive