The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

Yes Russia has been known for years to be playing disinformation games. We can’t know anything any more, it’s a matter of percentage certainty.

Is Ukraine rich in natural resources? I've no idea. I also don't know why they're not attacking the incoming convoy by air strikes? Surely it needs massively disrupting

@DottyDoge

This is not a war between Ukraine and Russia, it's a war for global power between USA and Russia as it has been since the end of WW2.

I don't see how that's true at all - this is about a country choosing its own path, and a big neighbouring country (or more specifically its leader) believing that country doesn't have that right and shouldn't even exist.

Ukraine did not chose their own path - in 2013 when a series of violent events involving protesters, riot police, and unknown shooters in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government with the logistic support of the US. Google the Revolution of Dignity.

Also google the neo nazi Azov Batalion in Ukraine.

@DottyDoge

This is not a war between Ukraine and Russia, it's a war for global power between USA and Russia as it has been since the end of WW2.

I don't see how that's true at all - this is about a country choosing its own path, and a big neighbouring country (or more specifically its leader) believing that country doesn't have that right and shouldn't even exist.

Its not as if Putin will stop at Ukraine is it? this is already a world conflict.

If people are right and he would use nuclear weapons, then he isn't going to be bothered by a few 1000 NATO troops in Poland or Latvia or none at all in Finland, Sweden?

I have never believed the old Soviet mentality ever went away, Putin is really just a continuum that saw them involved in insurgencies around the world, invasions of Czech Hungary etc

One thing that isn't being discussed is what will become millions of refugees? what will we do to save 100s of 1000s of civilian deaths and injuries? what will we sacrifice to increase defence spending to 4 or 5% of GDP?

Listening to Raab, it seems we will standby and do nothing.... Sky is taking down the idiot.

The west killed Saddam and Gaddafi.. they can do the same to Putin.
And yes, as much as I am appalled by the scenes unfolding in the Ukraine, they are exactly what we saw happening in Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Syria.. but I don’t recall reading the same sympathetic posts on mumsnet…for some reason

@IamSamantha

Is Ukraine rich in natural resources? I've no idea. I also don't know why they're not attacking the incoming convoy by air strikes? Surely it needs massively disrupting

You think the Russians have no air cover for this convoy? let alone that Ukraine has a functioning air force?

Or do you think we should bomb them? which is probably where we are heading.

My heart weeps this morning. I just keep thinking of all the poor children who are caught up in this, how frightened they must be. How much longer will this go on?!

This thread is incredibly informative and thank you to all those who are taking the time to share.

I cannot verify this but there are reports of Russian deserters, possibly quite a few.

twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1498519894169722881?s=21

@IamSamantha

Is Ukraine rich in natural resources? I've no idea. I also don't know why they're not attacking the incoming convoy by air strikes? Surely it needs massively disrupting

In the Comecon Ukraine was always "the bread basket". Fantastic quality land and massive agricultural output. The coal mines were around Donetsk I thought.

The Russians clearly destroyed large parts of their air force.

Run on Russian banks already happening. Russian stock market closed until 5th March.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians-face-economic-point-of-no-return

@IamSamantha

Is Ukraine rich in natural resources? I've no idea. I also don't know why they're not attacking the incoming convoy by air strikes? Surely it needs massively disrupting

Very. It's very much a provider of lots of important resources.

Run on Russian banks already happening. Russian stock market closed until 5th March.

Will it be enough though to stop all this? I hope so.

Dominic Raab on Sky is a fucking embarrassment.

Whilst there are a number of reports this morning of Russians just abandoning vehicles and disappearing, none that I've seen have been verified yet.

There's also reports this morning that Russia is withdrawing all its diplomats from Canada. It got a lot of traction but the legitimacy of the story is now under considerable question.

But the US have expelled 12 diplomats for spying (not terribly unusual - pretty much every Russian diplomat is regarded as a spy, but are nonetheless tolerated for diplomatic reasons. If there's an incident then you get symbolic expulsion which are understood by both sides).

But i am getting increasingly nervous.

Not least because food and water are going to start running out now.

@bluewanda

My heart weeps this morning. I just keep thinking of all the poor children who are caught up in this, how frightened they must be. How much longer will this go on?!

That image on the news last night of a father outside on the train platform holding his hand to the train window with his little boy inside the train holding his hand to his father broke my heart.

@IamSamantha, yes, neon and palladium apparently as well as wheat and steel - www.cips.org/supply-management/news/2022/february/chip-makers-need-to-look-for-suppliers-outside-ukraine-/

Was hoping after I chrcked the old thread that nothing much had happened overnight.

It's so fucking distressing for us, how terrified must the Ukrainian people (and Russian civilians) feel. My ds was off school yesterday because of a tummy bug. He is year 3, his friend came out of school inconsolable yesterday apparently so have had to explain to ds what is happening and tell him we aren't going to war. Poor kids, first rona, now this. I know it's miniscule to what Ukrainian children are going through but it's so sad.

@IamSamantha thus article explains more about Ukraine’s natural resources. Suffice to say they are abundant: www.businesstoday.in/amp/latest/world/story/are-ukraines-vast-natural-resources-a-real-reason-behind-russias-invasion-323894-2022-02-25

DH has a theory that the massive convoy is to show the Russian audience he’s winning and to dispel any notion that it hasn’t gone as well as he hoped. The same with the increasing threats to the west and the discussion of their nuclear capability on Russian tv. He can’t be seen to lose even if he actually does it will need to be reframed to his country so he doesn’t lose face.
I’m not sure I believe that but If it’s true, especially about the threats, it makes me feel better. I don’t feel better about the force heading to Ukraine though.
I still can’t understand why they haven’t used their airforce (Russia) do they have something else up their sleeve for it?

@Maze76

The west killed Saddam and Gaddafi.. they can do the same to Putin. And yes, as much as I am appalled by the scenes unfolding in the Ukraine, they are exactly what we saw happening in Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Syria.. but I don’t recall reading the same sympathetic posts on mumsnet…for some reason

Yes, and look at the wonders of milk and honey in both Iraq and Libya.

Also, they were both killed or captured while on the run. Putin isn't running.

I was never on just one side, I have family in/from Russia, I speak and read fluently in Russian, I can see what's brought us here from their side, and I don't think the West has never made mistakes in their handling of his.

I didn't think Putin will invade, and certainly not the way he did, and I didn't think that even if he did his army will get bogged down like this.

What a fucking mess.

70 Ukrainian soldiers killed on base near Kharkiv. Local reports suggest may be fuel-air bomb (thermobaric), although not yet confirmed.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/01/fears-of-bloody-fight-for-kyiv-as-huge-russian-army-convoy-gathers-on-outskirts

@RedToothBrush are you getting nervous for Ukraine in the next 24 hours or nervous Russia is going to strike the west? Or both!

Another morning And it's as seems capital is still held

My concern is,if Russia takes over soon it Will all disappear like the Taliban in Afghanistan
Then getting news out is harder.

So frustrating that plane can't take out that column

Also I was thinking pamphlet in Russian.given out to all Russian sent, dropped on the colom.
Saying what I'm not entirely sure?

Go home, we are your cousin's , we want democratic.

Ps someone Said they want to write on Russian trip advisor, getting news out Via reviews?