The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

And the redoubtable now freelance reporter John Sweeney (who is on the ground in Kyiv) gathers together a lot of the threads of Russian influence and our PM.

bylinetimes.com/2022/02/23/has-prime-minister-boris-johnson-been-compromised-by-russia/

He's sadly a bit past his best and his YouTube channel is virtually unnoticed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sweeney_(journalist)

www.youtube.com/channel/UCigjyWFhixH1cLSugeJbX8w

Well I caught up, ready for the end of the thread! 🙄

@SirVixofVixHall

I do struggle to understand how a man who has lived for seven decades, has children and Grandchildren, including alleged toddler twin sons , and who is rich beyond all measure, isn’t counting his blessings and finding ways to help the world, rather than blowing up civilians.

It's beyond belief isn't it.

This is a bit of a simplistic question but what European countries are going to be best for Ukrainian refugees to go to? Similar culture, language etc so they can adapt as easily as possible. Entirely anecdotal, but speaking to Polish friends they seem to think Poland could absorb and welcomes Ukrainian refugees and can we and the EU actually help Poland financially and in other ways to help such refugees settle?
With no family in another European country is Poland going to be a better fit than e.g. Germany? Moldova appears overwhelmed with refugees and the EU isn’t going to pay Moldova to take refugees?

Thread five set up ready. Thanks to all who have contributed so far. I suggest we ought to get to 1000 posts before moving across and hopefully get back on topic.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5?watched=1

@workisnotawolf

This is a bit of a simplistic question but what European countries are going to be best for Ukrainian refugees to go to? Similar culture, language etc so they can adapt as easily as possible. Entirely anecdotal, but speaking to Polish friends they seem to think Poland could absorb and welcomes Ukrainian refugees and can we and the EU actually help Poland financially and in other ways to help such refugees settle? With no family in another European country is Poland going to be a better fit than e.g. Germany? Moldova appears overwhelmed with refugees and the EU isn’t going to pay Moldova to take refugees?

There are already many Ukrainians working in Poland - as the Poles came to the UK to work so the Ukrainians moved west to fill in the gaps (they generally do menial jobs). So yes Poland is closest culturally but still very different countries in many ways

FFS Mancy legend and Factory Records founder and Hacienda club founder Alan Erasmus (folk of a certain age will know what a legend he is) at 72 is flying out to Ukraine to get involved.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/im-not-having-wish-luck-23249577

@Hrpuffnstuff1
Stop posting informative salient academic views.
They're not allowed, what we need is gossip, side swiping and a dash of moral authority.

It's all about archetypes, goody and a baddie innit.

Sorry, I won't do it again. How about this instead?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qESClEHts

@LampLighter414

I don't know why I'm getting stick for acknowledging I'm an empath and other people's emotions and situations engulf me.

A 40 mile column of tanks and Putin setting his nukes ready to be fired in a situation where he dies! That is scary!

Honestly I'm struggling to even reply to work emails today. It's so scary. I'm shaking. I'm trying to not watch the news but its just on every tv show and all over social media. Really tempted to tell my boss I can't work properly and say I've been sleeping bad or something.

@lamplighter414.

It is scary for everyone nobody is saying anything otherwise. But to be at the stage where you can't even cope at work is for now a somewhat extreme reaction. I suffer with anxiety and panic attacks and even I'm not like that about the whole thing . Maybe get therapy for yourself.

@Alondra

RedToothBrush

Calling me a Putin apologist, that I was ranting and being patronising with with your pats instead of addressing my post is your choice.

@Alondra I've seen a lot of criticism and whataboutery from you of past actions, which is fine as I doubt there is a single country with an unblemished past. What I haven't seen are any suggestions for a way forward. That would make an interesting and constructive discussion.

@workisnotawolf

This is a bit of a simplistic question but what European countries are going to be best for Ukrainian refugees to go to? Similar culture, language etc so they can adapt as easily as possible. Entirely anecdotal, but speaking to Polish friends they seem to think Poland could absorb and welcomes Ukrainian refugees and can we and the EU actually help Poland financially and in other ways to help such refugees settle? With no family in another European country is Poland going to be a better fit than e.g. Germany? Moldova appears overwhelmed with refugees and the EU isn’t going to pay Moldova to take refugees?

They'll need to spread out across a lot of countries, so no one country is impacted too much. Not ideal of course, but its hopefully only temporary for most of the refugees.

@vera99 what’s he going to do, Vera? Sprinkle them all with mdma so they start hugging?

[quote vera99]And the redoubtable now freelance reporter John Sweeney (who is on the ground in Kyiv) gathers together a lot of the threads of Russian influence and our PM.

bylinetimes.com/2022/02/23/has-prime-minister-boris-johnson-been-compromised-by-russia/

He's sadly a bit past his best and his YouTube channel is virtually unnoticed.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sweeney_(journalist)

www.youtube.com/channel/UCigjyWFhixH1cLSugeJbX8w[/quote]
He did however do the Hunting Ghislane podcast which got millions of listens (including me, and I don't listen to podcasts).

He's an odd mix of old hack, but with a liberal dollop of literally not giving a fuck any more. And he's usually right.

@HumbleBumbleLady

I’ve just seen Belarus have joined the war with Russia. I have a feeling NATO will get involved very soon.

I thought they said they weren't going to get involved . Fuckin lying bastards. Shits about to go down I fear very very soon.

This is so sad.

'We were told they would welcome us'.
Russian soldier moments before his death in Ukraine.

news.sky.com/story/we-were-told-they-would-welcome-us-russian-soldier-moments-before-his-death-in-ukraine-12554511

[quote OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]This is so sad.

'We were told they would welcome us'.
Russian soldier moments before his death in Ukraine.

news.sky.com/story/we-were-told-they-would-welcome-us-russian-soldier-moments-before-his-death-in-ukraine-12554511[/quote]
One less Russian soldier to kill Ukrainians... as a Ukrainian govt minister said "yes some our children but they are children who kill Ukrainians"

As that soldier said "We are bombing all of the cities together, even targeting civilians"

Thread 5:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4494173-The-Invasion-is-ongoing-Part-5

[quote OnlyOpenMouthToChangeFeet]This is so sad.

'We were told they would welcome us'.
Russian soldier moments before his death in Ukraine.

news.sky.com/story/we-were-told-they-would-welcome-us-russian-soldier-moments-before-his-death-in-ukraine-12554511[/quote]
For some reason I've just remembered my DFs family being told to go into the streets and cheer the Americans on in 1944.

That's being told, not just asked politely

@workisnotawolf

This is a bit of a simplistic question but what European countries are going to be best for Ukrainian refugees to go to? Similar culture, language etc so they can adapt as easily as possible. Entirely anecdotal, but speaking to Polish friends they seem to think Poland could absorb and welcomes Ukrainian refugees and can we and the EU actually help Poland financially and in other ways to help such refugees settle? With no family in another European country is Poland going to be a better fit than e.g. Germany? Moldova appears overwhelmed with refugees and the EU isn’t going to pay Moldova to take refugees?

This article explains it www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-60555472

@SirVixofVixHall

I do struggle to understand how a man who has lived for seven decades, has children and Grandchildren, including alleged toddler twin sons , and who is rich beyond all measure, isn’t counting his blessings and finding ways to help the world, rather than blowing up civilians.

This is the truth isn't it. What a sad, wasted life, devoid of anything that really matters.

There's a thread on Reddit at the moment with a young Russian soldier who has been captured and given the chance to ring home to his Mama. She asks him why he was in Ukraine and he said he was pulled from normal training exercises and told he would be part of a peacekeeping force in Ukraine. He believed that.
He was incredulous that that was not the case and he was the aggressor, hence his capture.
Some of these young Russian kids had no idea what they were being sent to do. He was imploring his Mother to let his Command in Russia know he'd been captured...

I wonder what would happen if they fired a missile back at Moscow...I suppose they need to stay on the side of right really

[quote BoreOfWhabylon]@Hrpuffnstuff1
Stop posting informative salient academic views.
They're not allowed, what we need is gossip, side swiping and a dash of moral authority.

It's all about archetypes, goody and a baddie innit.

Sorry, I won't do it again. How about this instead?
m.youtube.com/watch?v=r7qESClEHts[/quote]
A classic film was very under-viewed at the time of its release. It's obviously been parodied since to amusing effect.

@DottyDoge

Ukraine did not chose their own path - in 2013 when a series of violent events involving protesters, riot police, and unknown shooters in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government with the logistic support of the US. Google the Revolution of Dignity.

In 2019, 73% of the population voted for President Zelensky. I'm noy mathematician, but I'm sure 2019 comes after 2013. Ukrainians did choose a path, Russia (Putin) just doesn't like it.

Two issues with that - it was not 73%of population, it was 73% of those who voted, which was under 50% of those eligible to vote. The second issue was that the Donetsk and Luhansk areas in the East were excluded from voting, which means they are highly unlikely to accept him as their president