The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

The west killed Saddam and Gaddafi.. they can do the same to Putin

Putin is in a completely different league to those two in terms of military power so I don’t think that’s true.

I still can’t understand why they haven’t used their airforce (Russia) do they have something else up their sleeve for it?

They don't yet have control of the skies, the Ukrainians have hand held S2A missiles and drones supplied by Turkey.

But they are using more heavy weapons.

Ukraine did not chose their own path - in 2013 when a series of violent events involving protesters, riot police, and unknown shooters in the Ukrainian capital Kyiv culminated in the ousting of elected President Viktor Yanukovych and the overthrow of the Ukrainian government with the logistic support of the US. Google the Revolution of Dignity.

In 2019, 73% of the population voted for President Zelensky. I'm noy mathematician, but I'm sure 2019 comes after 2013. Ukrainians did choose a path, Russia (Putin) just doesn't like it.

@Maze76

The west killed Saddam and Gaddafi.. they can do the same to Putin. And yes, as much as I am appalled by the scenes unfolding in the Ukraine, they are exactly what we saw happening in Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Syria.. but I don’t recall reading the same sympathetic posts on mumsnet…for some reason

Just no.

Not a good comparison.

i thought ukraine already had a no fly zone, but they are asking for one?

@MrsLargeEmbodied

i thought ukraine already had a no fly zone, but they are asking for one?

Asking for one, will we provide one?

This is could be a huge test for NATO and the West.

[quote CaveMum]@IamSamantha thus article explains more about Ukraine’s natural resources. Suffice to say they are abundant: www.businesstoday.in/amp/latest/world/story/are-ukraines-vast-natural-resources-a-real-reason-behind-russias-invasion-323894-2022-02-25[/quote]
Both Ukraine and Russia natural resources are huge. The earth, our planet, is limited and resources are contained in our plantet. The country who controls those resources literally can do as it wants.

This is what wars have been from beginning of time and what's happening with this one. Nothing has changed from wars in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

The only difference is that instead of bombings and massive refugees leaving their war torn countries in the ME, now is an Eastern European country. The suffering is the same but we care more about our own and the propaganda has sky rocketted.

@Maze76

The west killed Saddam and Gaddafi.. they can do the same to Putin. And yes, as much as I am appalled by the scenes unfolding in the Ukraine, they are exactly what we saw happening in Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Syria.. but I don’t recall reading the same sympathetic posts on mumsnet…for some reason

I really wish they would. How come Putin is so untouchable but Saddam and Gadaffi were not? Genuine question, if anybody can shed any light.

I take it the former two weren't threatening people with nuclear weapons?

You can also goggle why an Ukranian president elected by the US chose to cut the water flowing to the Crimea canal causing all the harvests in the region to fail since then

I took up the suggestion and googled to read a Reuters article explaining that Ukraine dammed the North Crimean Canal eight years when Crimea was annexed by Russia. So if anyone is responsible for the failure of its crops wouldn’t this be the country actually running Crimea?

Also, I googled to see how a Ukrainian President was elected by the US, but nothing came up on that at all. So if you’ve got some links to evidence, I’d be interested in reading them.

Who is bombing civilians? Who has sent tanks and troops into another country? Who has killed children? Who has caused tens of thousands to flee their homes?

Putin has imprisoned political opponents. He has sent assassins to poison his critics. He has interfered in elections and votes in the US and the U.K.. He has shut down critical publications and had journalists attacked, arrested and imprisoned. He has now sent troops into another country and bombed their cities.

He is a dictator. He is a thug. He is a war criminal.

This.

Putin is a thug, a murderer and a killer and a KGB agent to boot, he’s abetted in some of the world’s worst bloodshed back then (seeking to gain influence in the Middle East) and now (Ukraine) he’s the definition of EVIL and I wish someone would take the monster out!!

[quote youhadmeatjello]@RedToothBrush are you getting nervous for Ukraine in the next 24 hours or nervous Russia is going to strike the west? Or both![/quote]
Everything.

Food, shelling, convoys, russian internal situation, non westerners getting pissed at different treatment by west (diplomatic issue, bombs

Everything.

Its massively destabilising. Russia wants a new world order...

How come Putin is so untouchable

Because Russia is a superpower with the highest number of nuclear weapons in the world. There is no comparison to Iraq or Libya.

DH has a theory that the massive convoy is to show the Russian audience he’s winning and to dispel any notion that it hasn’t gone as well as he hoped.

But how does the massive convoy look like he's winning?

Does it not just look stagnant?

@RedToothBrush do you still think nuclear is unlikely? I’ve been so anxious about it but at the same time I’m less and less confident that MAD is enough to prevent it.
I can’t see a way out of this whole situation now can you? Putin will have to look like he’s won and got the upper hand and I don’t see how that can be done unless he does something drastic.
Those poor people in Ukraine, each day it just gets worse and worse.

@AbsentmindedWoman because it will just be presented to the Russian people as a show of force and might.

So the land is very worthwhile for Putin to gain because it is a money spinner with investment. He doesn't need buildings to survive he just wants the land! But this also must go against the likelihood of nuclear being used in the area as that would result in dormancy and no gain.

I've no idea what or who I think should be clearing out the convoy but to just let it trundle in as destroy can't possibly be a good idea. I have little idea about war tactics etc or why its seemingly been untouched but theyre sitting ducks on that road.

What really saddens me is the Russian people are also victims of this situation. I can't believe all these Russian fighters actually want to fight but if they don't what happens to them.

It's a horrendous situation and the puppet masters need taking out.

@DrBlackbird

You can also goggle why an Ukranian president elected by the US chose to cut the water flowing to the Crimea canal causing all the harvests in the region to fail since then

I took up the suggestion and googled to read a Reuters article explaining that Ukraine dammed the North Crimean Canal eight years when Crimea was annexed by Russia. So if anyone is responsible for the failure of its crops wouldn’t this be the country actually running Crimea?

Also, I googled to see how a Ukrainian President was elected by the US, but nothing came up on that at all. So if you’ve got some links to evidence, I’d be interested in reading them.

You can't grow crops when the water supply has been cut. It's what happened in Crimea after the anexation by Russia. Ukraine cut the water canal supply.

Google Revolution of Dignity. Google is an American internet searcher and you will never find why an Ukranian elected president - Viktor Yanuknoych was outsted by the amount of arms, propaganda, street commandos and violent protests supported by the US money.

Much as I would like to see the Putin taken out, for the West to do it would not be a good thing. We have to hope that his generals might consider offing Vlad, but I can't see that happening yet.

What I find frustrating is knowing what and what not to believe as there will be propaganda on both sides. Some things are obviously verifiable (that convoy for example), but I wish there was a truly independent news source.

[quote Damnloginpopup]The sanctions are hitting the ordinary Russian people hard. Could this be the key? Guardian link as the one I https as reading previously I can no longer find but same information basically.
/www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians-face-economic-point-of-no-return[/quote]
I hope so but I’m sure Putin will use it to his advantage, use it as a way of uniting the Russian people against the enemy west etc. I remember watching a programme, I think it was Simon Reeves in Russia, and people were bragging that they’ve learnt to make their own French cheeses etc and how the sanctions (think it was for Crimea) have made them stronger. The government control all the media and are clamping down on social media so I’m sure they will spread more lies.

I really wish they would. How come Putin is so untouchable but Saddam and Gadaffi were not? Genuine question, if anybody can shed any light. I would imagine the 'ops' logistics of getting close to Saddam and Gadaffi were probably easier. However, good our spies and MI6 agents are, they are unlikely to be close enough to take a 'shot/pop' at Putin.

Was watching the BBC2 programme, 'The Rise of the Nazis' last night. It seemed to focus on opposition to Hitler as the war progressed, including the White Rose resistance group. I was struck by the botched assassination attempt carried out by Claus von Stauffenberg, imagining the same type of scenario happening now in Russia with Putin. It just wouldn't. The level of paranoia that Putin purportedly displays most likely exists within his inner circle too, with close confidantes (military, political and personal) pitched against each other to ensure there's no 'ganging up against him' going on.

Sorry there shouldn't be a comma after that However.

And just saw a headline that indicated that getting rid of Putin may leave the way open for a worse despot in charge!

I’ve been following the threads and learnt so much, so thank you. Admittedly I’m not particularly knowledgeable about this conflict.

My question is this.... Has Putin been planning a war with the EU for years and is this the reason why he engineered Brexit and Trump? But then China unleashed Covid which scuppered his plans. It feels far fetched, like a movie script.

But the oligarchs have invested a lot of money in the UK and many live here. There is strong evidence of Russian interference in both elections. The Johnson government has received Russian donations. There is evidence of close ties with Trump; Ivanka was photographed on holiday with oligarchs and Putin’s rumours girlfriend Wendi Deng (Murdoch’s Ex). And so on.

Does Putin want the US and UK to remain neutral while he restores the USSR? But then what about NATO?

I freely admit I don’t know enough about this, it seems crazy except nothing surprises these days!

Interesting also that Kyiv (Kievan Rus) was the seat of Slavic power 1,000 years ago and the Grand Prince of Kiev is known as Vladimir the Great in Russian and Volodymyr the Great in Ukraine. Ie. the Christian names of Putin and Zelensky, which is a spooky!

Gosh this did make me chuckle for a minute.

What benefit is keeping the russian stock exchange closed? I didn't know they could stop trading.

I don't understand? Is this simply to hold off the rouble literally crashing through the floor? Does it allow Putin time to syphon off more physical money and store it?