The invasion continues - Thread No.4

[ChimChimeny]

Following the previous (2? 3?) Threads

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4492641-The-Invasion-Has-Stalled

@BeyondPurpleTulips where did you see this reported, please? I can't find it on the BBC news site

@WhatWouldChristineCagneyDo

what is 11100169 over on flight radar? Doing a straight line out of Mielec with a perfect hexagon at each end. Some sort of unmanned drone?

No idea, never seem that pattern before but given the speed and altitude you are probably right, it is a drone.

(The hexagonal pattern is so odd I did wonder for a while if it was a tracking “glitch” but it’s the same on several tracker sites and it’s consistent in it’s dimensions and position,, not jittery).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=621d4dfcec502b53cd4802cd%26Russia%20has%20used%20vacuum%20bomb%2C%20says%20Ukraine%20envoy%262022-02-28T22%3A44%3A09.046Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:07cd4abf-24d6-4d77-8c15-64c5cc3a2c23&pinned_post_asset_id=621d4dfcec502b53cd4802cd&pinned_post_type=share

@notimagain It's very strange isn't it, the geometry seems almost perfect.

@Thereisnolight

I did see on the news tonight footage of some foreign male students getting very angry because women with young children were being put on trains ahead of them. Are there examples of foreign mothers with young children being denied places in the queue?

What a charming lad

F

There is an official part of the Ukraine National Guard (10%) that is openly neo-nazi there are uncomfortable shades of grey here sadly. Stuff will be happening that we in the liberal tolerant west will find very uncomfortable. So it is not difficult to understand that a proportion of the Ukrainians like every other country are deeply racist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

This is nitpicking and semantics overriding the spirit of the agreement at the time.

Yes, that's what Putin says. Because clearly a wink and a nod in 1990, to the president of a country that no longer exists, should be the basis for European security forever more.

Of course, we could talk about the actual legal agreement that Russia signed called the Budapest Memorandum, where they gave security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for giving up nuclear weapons.

Or Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, which prohibits the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of another state.

It's fine to violate those actual international laws apparently.

I did see on the news tonight footage of some foreign male students getting very angry because women with young children were being put on trains ahead of them.

I saw that too and thought they seemed like misogynistic little pricks. What kind of men wouldn’t let the women and tiny children escape first?

@Thereisnolight

I did see on the news tonight footage of some foreign male students getting very angry because women with young children were being put on trains ahead of them. Are there examples of foreign mothers with young children being denied places in the queue?

I have family helping at the refuge center in Moldova and there are hundreds of foreign students there. According to them, the word in their community is that on Ukraine-Moldova border they can get through by bribing the Ukrainian border force and the Moldovans are letting them through without any problems. The situation on the Polish border is tougher as there are a lot more people trying to get through.

@katem98 Thermobaric weapons are not directly banned in international law. But just like any other weapon, if you use them indiscriminately or unnecessarily, that would violate international law. Using them in civilian-populated areas would almost certainly do that.

I saw that too and thought they seemed like misogynistic little pricks. What kind of men wouldn’t let the women and tiny children escape first? The kind that were raised as little darling can-do-no-wrong princelings by their mummies.

Ukraine is just as much of an aggressor as it is the victim.

I believe this. I also believe that the West bears a large part of the responsibility for this crisis. We've been up to our usual tactics of deposing uncongenial leaders and propping up Western-friendly puppet regimes via vast amounts of military aid and hot air concerning 'democracy' and 'human rights' (whilst assiduously ignoring any violations of these values that don't fit the narrative). Typical arrogant puffed up sabre-rattling on the part of US, EU, UK, NATO, etc. They've egged Ukraine on to poke the bear and now war breaks out and they're nowhere to be seen, abandoning the people they claimed to care so much about.

Thank you sharing @BeyondPurpleTulips I didn't want to believe it!

they're nowhere to be seen

Russian bots found MN?

@Rocaille

Ukraine is just as much of an aggressor as it is the victim.

I believe this. I also believe that the West bears a large part of the responsibility for this crisis. We've been up to our usual tactics of deposing uncongenial leaders and propping up Western-friendly puppet regimes via vast amounts of military aid and hot air concerning 'democracy' and 'human rights' (whilst assiduously ignoring any violations of these values that don't fit the narrative). Typical arrogant puffed up sabre-rattling on the part of US, EU, UK, NATO, etc. They've egged Ukraine on to poke the bear and now war breaks out and they're nowhere to be seen, abandoning the people they claimed to care so much about.

Don't think this particular bear took a lot of poking, frankly and the US/EU/UK/NATO are not the people pounding Kyiv tonight.

Some of us are capable of knowing that Russia and Ukraine both have a very complex history without making excuses for Putin's appalling act.

I think Rocaille is deluded, but not a Russian bot. Ukraine wants to join the EU and NATO for the same reasons that other countries do - prosperity and security. The US and EU are doing a lot to support Ukraine - if they did any more militarily, they'd risk all out war with Russia.
letmesleep123 is also wrong - Russia and NATO signed the Founding Act in 1997 (www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_25468.htm), a treaty which provided explicitly for more NATO members, and said that NATO wouldn't place nukes in them (which it hasn't). The argument that Russia was promised there would be no eastward extension of NATO is tosh. Russia always knew this would happen and are just angry about the manner in which it happened and some of the other things NATO and the US/UK have done (mainly bombing Serbia and invading Iraq).

[quote vera99]There is an official part of the Ukraine National Guard (10%) that is openly neo-nazi there are uncomfortable shades of grey here sadly. Stuff will be happening that we in the liberal tolerant west will find very uncomfortable. So it is not difficult to understand that a proportion of the Ukrainians like every other country are deeply racist.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion[/quote]
I don't think it's 10%. It's something like 2% which compared to the size of the country is very small.

A lot of misinformation is now being shared on this thread.

@DuncinToffee you've shared the Time magazine picture with no explanation to say its not real?

Re Flightradar, many, many of the planes discussed have been going over for week, months even for some as part of a NATO "show of strength". It doesn't suggest new aggression today, or even this week although their presence is being ramped up, some have been there for a long time. There are screenshots of a US drone that get shared every day that people make put are some sort of escalation. It isn't, it's been going up for around 2 weeks.

Just trying to make the point that it might be worth checking what you're posting or at least marking your post with the word "unverified" on it. These threads started out as being very informative but have decended into a lot of shoot from the hip information recently and it's not helpful.

On another note, the newspaper front pages with pictures of deceased children with their faces blurred out are fucking vile and not needed.

Feeling a bit uneasy about what sky news is reporting regarding volunteers who are mostly ex-servicemen or military trained going to join the fight ?

news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-invasion-britons-willing-to-die-to-defeat-putins-army-as-volunteers-prepare-to-travel-to-fight-russian-invasion-12554220

I know Britain isn't directly sending troops in BUT won't this trigger P.. ?

This is referring to what he said about retaliating if there is any interference?

The guy is a d.. head and can just about use any excuse to attack other countries?

Russian bots found MN?

Lol no, I'm just thoroughly sick of Western adventurism. I wish we could stop meddling in the complex affairs of people far away who we do not properly understand. In Ukraine we've further destabilised a country that already had enough problems to be dealing with. I'm sure this crisis is the result of a huge miscalculation on the part of the West: we've been interfering in Ukraine for years, presumably in an effort to contain Russia. But it's backfired: I don't think this Russian invasion was the intended outcome. It should have been clear that even if Ukrainian membership of NATO was theoretically possible, in terms of realpolitik Russia would never allow it. All we've done is paint a target on the Ukrainian people, and then run away to watch from behind our TV screens.

@letmesleep123 your posts are really interesting, thank you.

@hannsmum

Feeling a bit uneasy about what sky news is reporting regarding volunteers who are mostly ex-servicemen or military trained going to join the fight ?

news.sky.com/story/amp/ukraine-invasion-britons-willing-to-die-to-defeat-putins-army-as-volunteers-prepare-to-travel-to-fight-russian-invasion-12554220

I know Britain isn't directly sending troops in BUT won't this trigger P.. ?

This is referring to what he said about retaliating if there is any interference?

The guy is a d.. head and can just about use any excuse to attack other countries?

As I said about the polish craft flying from polish bases, it's iffy.

You don't want to get into a game of "well technically we haven't sent NATO troops" with someone who can then argue "well technically that nuclear weapon I fired was only a tactical missile"

What was a useful thread now has a lot of disinformation on it as pro Russian posts distort the facts.

What was a useful thread now has a lot of disinformation on it as pro Russian posts distort the facts.

It's a moan about US foreign policy, not disinformation.