The invasion has begun

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Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

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It seems like an impossible situation. The west can fight Putin and , as he said himself -have consequences like we’ve never seen before.
Then if the West does nothing then we allow Putin to bully us and think we’re scared of him.What next?
What’s the West supposed to do?

By the way, NATO can beat Russia in military terms, with the numbers of military personnel.

@tuba437 that all depends on whether Putin defeats and withdraws or defeats and occupies. He said he won't occupy but...if NATO then moves in to secure the border if he withdraws, well, he's back further than square one as it's all about denying Ukraine to NATO as a buffer from his border anyway.

Hope someone bumps him off! I bet people close to him are thinking it!

The man is barely alive at this point.

@Choccy21

Most Russians don’t want this surely? Stupid question, but why can’t a dictator like Putin be overthrown? Why do the Russian military comply with him? Why do they want a maniac like him ?

Because you will die? Be it thrown out of a top floor window, taking a sip of tea or touching a door knob?

Oh wait that was on uk soil...my bad.

My 11 year old daughter came out of school upset today worried Putin would attack us in the UK!😢😞

@Choccy21

It seems like an impossible situation. The west can fight Putin and , as he said himself -have consequences like we’ve never seen before. Then if the West does nothing then we allow Putin to bully us and think we’re scared of him.What next? What’s the West supposed to do?

By the way, NATO can beat Russia in military terms, with the numbers of military personnel.

We can fight him, but we cannot fight our way out of this and neither can he.

Whether we like it or not we have to talk to him, and we have to find a way of by way of diplomacy.

I don't think we should exaggerate the power of the Russian armed forces. I don't know why people are talking about the Red Army circa 1945 -- that army disintegrated when the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin has been gradually building back the Russian armed forces over the last 20 years but as a conventional force (setting aside nuclear and cyber) they are not superior to US/NATO forces.

They are also not as experienced. The Syria campaign was mostly airpower. They took Crimea without a shot fired.

This is a short comparison of US and Russian forces:
www.forces.net/news/russia-and-us-military-firepower-comparison

And that's just the US, not even the rest of NATO.

The man is barely alive at this point.

Putin?

He has cancer and parkinsons. He looks bloated to me which could indicate he's on dexamethasone (steroid). This can have side effects of aggression and impulsiveness.

Let's hope he's running out of time.

@Choccy21

Most Russians don’t want this surely? Stupid question, but why can’t a dictator like Putin be overthrown? Why do the Russian military comply with him? Why do they want a maniac like him ?

This. I mean with a bit of “help”. I realise the west have rules of engagement but honestly a total nut job who has just invaded somewhere because he can needs to go. Bundle him and his cronies up and put them on public trial for crimes against humanity somewhere. China and Korea can even have a vote too if we want to be fair.

@Bluecatsalltheway

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Like I said before I went to bed, it's check, if not mate.

And we really couldn't. There are insufficient forces in position and neither time nor space to change that. Think back to gulf 1 and how long the build up took before the coalition felt confident to move against a third rate (I'm being charitable) opponent.

Barrow.

I was supposed to put a quote of pp saying Biden was barely awake ffs

Im sitting thinking should we move to Australia, they don’t seem to be likely to be attacked do they

There's no point - read Nevil Shute's "On the beach".

Anyway - China.

Let's hope he's running out of time

Could worse succeed him though? It's worrying.

@JuergenSchwarzwald

Im sitting thinking should we move to Australia, they don’t seem to be likely to be attacked do they

There's no point - read Nevil Shute's "On the beach".

Anyway - China.

Brilliant book

I was thinking about that today (as I considered my Aus passport)

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

The man is barely alive at this point.

Putin?

He has cancer and parkinsons. He looks bloated to me which could indicate he's on dexamethasone (steroid). This can have side effects of aggression and impulsiveness.

Let's hope he's running out of time.

Has this been verified??

If it's true then shit...he's got nothing to lose

I was supposed to put a quote of pp saying Biden was barely awake ffs

😆😆😆

They're all a bunch of fools aren't they? 😆

@MarshaBradyo My God 'On the Beach' is one hell of a powerful book isn't it? Stayed with me for a long time.

Has this been verified??

It was being widely reported in 2020. If it's true it could go either way. He knows what would happen if he went too far and it would wipe out his family members. Would he care? Is he a psychopath?

Library it really is. The ending was so powerful, it stayed with me too.

@dreamingbohemian

I don't think we should exaggerate the power of the Russian armed forces. I don't know why people are talking about the Red Army circa 1945 -- that army disintegrated when the Soviet Union collapsed. Putin has been gradually building back the Russian armed forces over the last 20 years but as a conventional force (setting aside nuclear and cyber) they are not superior to US/NATO forces.

They are also not as experienced. The Syria campaign was mostly airpower. They took Crimea without a shot fired.

This is a short comparison of US and Russian forces:
www.forces.net/news/russia-and-us-military-firepower-comparison

And that's just the US, not even the rest of NATO.

I looked through that link. If accurate I'd say they are evenly matched, other than the 2 million Russian reservists (all obsolete equipment they trained on is mothballed for their use. That isn't accounted for in the figures). Except it's not even at all because the Americans are not in-theatre. Nor could they be logistically. And I hold the Russian combat soldier in far higher regard than I do the American. (Aircrew no)

Comparisons to 1945 are, I grant you, limited. But they do have some value and Russian troops have had other fights since. Chechnya for one (two).

It took the Russians to defeat Germany. They didn't need America coming in on the west. Britain could never have done it. It became, in effect, an American aircraft carrier, but they could not have taken Germany alone either. Only Russia could have done it alone

You need to look again at history of WW2.

Germany had a pact with the Russians, they weren't interested in helping defeat Germany.
Germany then attacked the Russians, in one of the most stupid military campaigns ever but even so, swept through the Red Army, but winter and Germany unable to re supply, led to the Russians re grouping and inflicting huge cruelty on the Germans, (understandable but brutal)
The USA coming into the war, both against Japan and Germany, would have defeated Germany regardless and had the Russians continued fighting, them as well.
They had nuclear weapons and weren't afraid to use them, in 1945, no one else did.

The numbers of planes tanks ships etc being produced by the US in 1944/45 was beyond belief, everything was better than what Germany or Russia had.

The USA has been guaranteeing our security ever since and even more today.

Someone who wrote about Putin said she's spoken to Moscow elite today and those she's spoken to are shocked as well.. they don't want this and they don't understand why he's done it.

She mentioned something about Putin asking for defence for a summer house And it was met with silence.

I wonder if Putin is lashing out at everyone! His own top brass? Show everyone whose boss?

Catherine Belton, Putin's people