The invasion has begun

[Damnloginpopup]

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

Does anyone here think NATO can defeat him?

@Heisrotten2thecore

Does anyone here think NATO can defeat him?

Probably but at what cost? Full on nuclear war?

library, I agree about the revisionism regarding WWII. With the current conflict, I don’t think anyone serious really believes the US could successfully invade Russia. I think it is more that with the US we have a decent chance of defending NATO countries from invasion by Russia.

I’m not convinced the economic sanctions announced today will come close to stopping Russia’s invasion of Ukraine though.

@Tigersonvaseline totally agree. I saw some very brave Russian people protesting today. A hundred of them were taken by the authorities. We won't see them again. I suppose it's easy for us to say, we are used to coming on here and saying BJ is total arse etc but criticise Putin you are likely to die a hideous death after a poison dart hits you.

This may have been shared already but the Guardian published some ways to try and help the people of Ukraine www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/feb/24/how-can-britons-help-the-people-of-ukraine

@Libraryghost

To all those who think the mighty power of the USA can squash Russia - seriously no, we wouldn't have won WW1 or WW2 without Russia. The Russians are airbrushed from Hollywood portrayals of WW2 but there were mass suicides in all over Germany as the red army approached. Putin like others before him such as Stalin did not give a flying fuck about their own people. Stalin let millions of Russians starve to achieve his own ends. The economic sanctions will hit the poorest Russian people the hardest and Putin will not care a jot. Their lives is a sacrifice he is prepared to make to rebuild the Russian empire.

Absolutely correct. It took the Russians to defeat Germany. They didn't need America coming in on the west. Britain could never have done it. It became, in effect, an American aircraft carrier, but they could not have taken Germany alone either. Only Russia could have done it alone.

@Clavinova correct- biggest Tory part donors are Russians and God only knows what investments etc individual MPs are tied up in with ogliarchs.

[quote Alexandra2001]@TiddyTidTwo err as did every other NATO countries leaders inc Boris Johnson.
Not sure why JB's comments come as a surprise to you.[/quote]
I don't have confidence in any of them.

Standing up for what you believe in in a country run by people like Putin is such a brave thing to do when you know what the consequences are.

Most Russians don’t want this surely?
Stupid question, but why can’t a dictator like Putin be overthrown?
Why do the Russian military comply with him?
Why do they want a maniac like him ?

Probably but at what cost? Full on nuclear war?

We can only hope that mutually assured destruction is enough to stave off nuclear war. Remember that the only time nuclear weapons have been used in war was when the US knew that they were the only ones with access to the technology. There have been many wars since then and nobody has pushed the nuclear button.

"Does anyone here think NATO can defeat him?"

I hope putin thinks they can, or he won't stop until he has the USSR back

@Heisrotten2thecore

Does anyone here think NATO can defeat him?

Nobody with any understanding of warfare. It's all wishful thinking I'm afraid.

Yes, I've been so impressed at the Russian people out protesting today. Incredibly brave given how Putin's regime treats dissenters.

I fear for them, and for what those working in such opposition media as survives today.

@Choccy21

Most Russians don’t want this surely? Stupid question, but why can’t a dictator like Putin be overthrown? Why do the Russian military comply with him? Why do they want a maniac like him ?

This is what I'm thinking and I'd be interested to know others thoughts on this.

I feel very worried about the whole thing. We’ve had such a crappy few years, and it feels like the world is hanging on a thread at the moment. Especially with Putins threat today that the repercussions for us should we interfere will be something that we have never encountered and will be devastating. I know I’m being irrational when I say I just want us to keep out of it, to protect us from revenge attacks. But then I know if he gets Ukraine, he will invade somewhere else, so where would it stop? Scarey times.

The weakest leader in their history he said . And he said that is part of the reason it has happened now

Actually, I believe the weakest as well as thickest leader in American history was last but one.

If Putin had been ready two years ago, he’d have done it then.

I'm starting to think Trump and Putin had some sort of deal going on.

Such an awful situation.

@Damnloginpopup I think it is the Russian mentality to fight to the death. I remember watching a documentary about Chernobyl and soldiers were queuing up for the honour of basically committing suicide for the USSR. The only hope is that I truly believe the Russian people are not behind Putin in this, he might find more internal resistance than previous leaders. The Russian people are more 'westernised' and the younger people have lost the Bolshevik mentality. We can live in hope.

It seems to have really gone at speed over the last few days ☹️ Feel heart sorry for the people of Ukraine. I’ve just spent too much time looking into nuclear weapons there and discovered much more than I’d like to know 😭 Russia have some of the strongest and fastest missiles that could reach us in around 20 minutes if launched. That’s completely terrifying and would usually be such a ridiculous thought to have but he has literally suggested it today 🤦🏼‍♀️ I just don’t see how he’s going to reach an end point in any of this. Im sitting thinking should we move to Australia, they don’t seem to be likely to be attacked do they? 🙈

@ladygindiva Russian elections are rigged. They have no choice but to accept Putin. Putin makes new laws and rules as he goes along. The repercussions of speaking out about Putin are terrifying. Look up Alexander Litvinenko. Russian agents came to a London to finish him off.

@sarah13xx

It seems to have really gone at speed over the last few days ☹️ Feel heart sorry for the people of Ukraine. I’ve just spent too much time looking into nuclear weapons there and discovered much more than I’d like to know 😭 Russia have some of the strongest and fastest missiles that could reach us in around 20 minutes if launched. That’s completely terrifying and would usually be such a ridiculous thought to have but he has literally suggested it today 🤦🏼‍♀️ I just don’t see how he’s going to reach an end point in any of this. Im sitting thinking should we move to Australia, they don’t seem to be likely to be attacked do they? 🙈

I doubt there is time for that. Unfortunately I think we can't do anything...

@mjf981

I think this will be over relatively quickly. Russia is massive with a huge military. Ukraine is not. The west will impose sanctions but that’s about it. Russia will have captured Kiev within a few weeks and then it’ll be over. Ukraine will become part of Russia again.

What then though, do we all just re write the world map with Ukraine as oart of Russia, also with the sanctions how long do they last no one can afford for them to last forever?

The Russian people aren't free. they have been denied free And fair election And they aren't allowed to speak out against the regime.

They aren't stupid they won't went this war

[quote Libraryghost]@Damnloginpopup I think it is the Russian mentality to fight to the death. I remember watching a documentary about Chernobyl and soldiers were queuing up for the honour of basically committing suicide for the USSR. The only hope is that I truly believe the Russian people are not behind Putin in this, he might find more internal resistance than previous leaders. The Russian people are more 'westernised' and the younger people have lost the Bolshevik mentality. We can live in hope. [/quote]
Yeah, never, ever discount Russian courage*. Or the Poles. People have done so at their cost. I strongly believe the Ukrainians are of the same mettle and that they will stand and fight, it's not going to be like we've seen in recent years from the Middle East and North Africa. But Ukraine will be overpowered, and soon, even with the advantage of fighting a defensive battle. Simply back to boots on the ground.

*And commissars behind firing at any who faltered of course.