The invasion has begun

[Damnloginpopup]

Russia has begun it's invasion of Ukraine. Who knows where this will end.

apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-moscow-kyiv-626a8c5ec22217bacb24ece60fac4fe1

@Tigersonvaseline

Someone who wrote about Putin said she's spoken to Moscow elite today and those she's spoken to are shocked as well.. they don't want this and they don't understand why he's done it.

She mentioned something about Putin asking for defence for a summer house And it was met with silence.

I wonder if Putin is lashing out at everyone! His own top brass? Show everyone whose boss?

I have also spoken to a few civilian Russians today, and follow a few others online for their artwork or youtube channels. They all say the same thing, they have absolutely no idea why he's done it and they don't agree with it. Sad times.

Yes but this lady said even Moscow elite are shocked! Those with the good life.

She mentioned something about Putin asking for defence for a summer house And it was met with silence

I don’t understand this sentence. Has Putin got a holiday home which might be destroyed in the fighting?

The Moscow elites need to do something about the little turd then. Someone needs to go Roman Senate on the wee shite. Turn their shock into action.

@Damnloginpopup I disagree they're evenly matched overall but you're right that context is key, of course

Not sure Chechnya says much about Russian capabilities, they lost the first war and were bogged down in the second until they managed to get an effective proxy on board. The second war was won through massive indiscriminate bombing and proxy warfare, not stellar Russian combat capabilities. (and also due to intra-Chechen warfare and counterproductive terrorism) And anyway that was 15 years ago, on Russian home soil.

@BarrowInFurnessRailwayStation

Has this been verified??

It was being widely reported in 2020. If it's true it could go either way. He knows what would happen if he went too far and it would wipe out his family members. Would he care? Is he a psychopath?

Who knows?? I mean, he's gone this far?

😞

Its terrible, I understand what he is trying to accomplish. Read that some 1990 agreement with usa and some other country agreed that nato would not come into the area and weaponized neighbour countries and they did.

Does anyone know what is really going on please. Apart from it being a shit storm

Does anyone know what is really going on please. Apart from it being a shit storm

Dictator having a meltdown.

@Alexandra2001 I agree if Germany had not taken on their former secret partner Russia then yes it is still highly likely the allies would still have won. Germany never stood a chance really. However once they took on the eastern front the red army and their man power was crucial in taking back Germany. In terms of supply and strategy you are quite correct USA and Uk were far superior.

@Ddot

Its terrible, I understand what he is trying to accomplish. Read that some 1990 agreement with usa and some other country agreed that nato would not come into the area and weaponized neighbour countries and they did.

In short Putin (as you know) has invaded Ukraine (a spiritual Russian homeland according to Putin) the west wont intervene and he will get to impose his own puppet administration. In time, the west will resume trade with Russia as we need what they have.

Whether nato expansion is valid or not is debatable now, i did think so but his actions show otherwise.

Two different youtube videos talking about the same speech, the Ukrainian film is the first one, and the comments below are from Russian speaking people complain about the mistranslations and the misrepresentation, and the second video is the full speech with translation where Putin answers the question in full - calmly

- see the comments below accusing the Ukranian film maker (I think?) of mistranslating (Ukranian film?) (Sky News)

@Ddot

Does anyone know what is really going on please. Apart from it being a shit storm

West reaping what they have sowed by being slow to accept Russia to NATO
Putin left with no choice but to put a barrier up between "neutral" states such as Finland between Russia and NATO - through fear that US warships would be on Russian soil
West ignoring and minimising Russian concerns
Failure to deal with Cold War after affects - esp. Finland and need for neutral areas
Populism is Eastern Europe
Obama/Trump/Biden (and any Europeans you want to add) - playing stupid games with Putin and promising him/Russia that they could be part of wider NATO agreement and then backing out at last minute
Europe leaders (Macron/Johnson having home issues to deal with)
German Chancellor (new) needing to assert authority
Propaganda
Trigger happy idiots on both sides

I know this is selfish but get your tariff sorted before Putin cuts us off

Tomatoes sorry.

I struggled to understand it myself but the jist was at some point he asked Moscow for defence for his summer homes, increase security but there was silence from Moscow.

I'e perhaps little support

@HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend

I do not support Biden , never have and never will, however he did give me clarity and was more informative than bumbling BJ!

Missed Biden - what did he say with clarity?

Watched video, I actually see his point

@anotherperson1 He will defend nato if Russia attacks, 1000s more troops to eastern europe and hardware, eco sanctions - individuals and banks plus bans on tech

@HillsBesideTheSea

In terms of pakistan russia? Unfortunately i was only half listening to the news, and the interviews are not being replayed due to the fast moving nature of the situation. My retrospective overwhelming impression was that they were ignoring the Ukraine situation, that some of the language on the arrival of pakistan pm was out of place based on the actions of Russia. And the dynamics worthy of looking at as part of a bigger picture of what russia/pakistan is hoping to gain from the situation. I am unaware of the role of russia in the pakistan /india/region of the world and that understanding the situation might make more sense of the meeting and its go ahead in the current unfolding events. Apparently it is a 2 day visit

Historically, from the cold war era, USSR provided a lot of support to India and even now Russia sells a lot of arms hardware to India

However, given the geopolitical history between India and Pakistan,
(since British left in 1947), Pakistan will most likely want to win some favour from Russia, in this crisis.

Territorial integrity and sovereignity
means many things depending on different contexts.

Why do they keep poking the bear

@smorgasbords

If any of you are watching BBC News, the Ukrainian they had on about ten minutes ago made the most crucial point as to why we, the US and the EU must intervene on their behalf.

Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons on the basis of our word, that we would help them if something like this happened. This wouldn’t be happening (probably) if Ukraine still had their nuclear weapons. We must not abandon them.

If anyone intervenes the planet turns to ash.

@ddot he’s a pathetic megalomanic nutjob, not a bear.

[quote Alexandra2001]@anotherperson1 He will defend nato if Russia attacks, 1000s more troops to eastern europe and hardware, eco sanctions - individuals and banks plus bans on tech[/quote]
Thanks

@dreamingbohemian

Russia has said that under article 51 part 7 they went into the Ukraine to defence the Russian citizens, having been asked to go in by the Russian citizens. The point here in fact is that they are saying they want to comply with international law and article 51 part 7 says it is legitimate until the UN takes measures. So this is an opening for the UN to negotiate peace keeping measures. I hope that makes sense now.

Please go back and read Article 51. Russia's invasion is NOT legitimate under Article 51.

Article 2(4) of the UN Charter prohibits the use of force by member states (in basic terms, it says war is unlawful). There are two exceptions: if the Security Council authorises collective security action (Chapter VII) or if a member state is the victim of an armed attack (Article 51).

Article 51 allows for individual self-defence (a state can defend itself) or collective self-defence (states can come to the aid of other recognised states).

It does not allow a state to invade another state to defend separatists or private citizens there. Putin can try to claim that it does but it does not. In fact in 1999 he objected to NATO intervening in Yugoslavia in defence of the Kosovo region, saying it was not lawful.

You are missing the point of what I was saying @dreamingbohemian - I didn't comment on whether it was legitimate under the charter - I didn't comment either way.

Russia refers specifically to the provision in the UN charter which refers to the UN introducing measures. I said that by referring to that specific provision, this is an opening for the UN to negotiate peace keeping measures.

I didn't say whether or not it was legitimate, I said Russia said it was legimate and the specifically quoted the provision which talks about UN putting in place peace keeping measures.

Thank you Tigers - I understand now.