Or is this victim blaming?

Exactly

I do not believe the majority of men would rape if they thought they could get away with it.
I am not surprised that someone on Mumsnet would think that though, and no doubt have women agree with her.

Even more astonishing is that it’s women who hold these views.

That has to take the prize for the most ridiculous post in the whole thread.

How can that be proved though considering about 75% of rapes arent reported to the police?

Maybe all those rapes are committed by strangers whilst the woman is walking home alone at night?

I assume these numbers are women who are going to doctors/A&E/Sexual Health Clinics and saying they’ve been raped but not wanting to report it to the police.

There's a distinct lack of nuance being permitted space in this discussion. I don't think that's especially helpful.

Nobody would say it was victim blaming to teach children how to keep themselves safe online. It's arming them to protect themselves and reduce risk, but it's still the perpetrator's fault if something does happen.

I don't see how it's victim blaming to ensure young women understand how they can keep themselves safe as they encounter new situations in the adult world, e.g. if a male celebrity invites you as an 18-year-old girl to a sleepover he probably doesn't want to just eat pizza with you. Teenagers tend to feel invincible but can be terrifyingly naive at the same time - if we don't inform them, we leave them unprotected.

Having honest conversations about risk and how to manage it so that people can make informed decisions isn't the same as saying it's a victim's fault if someone harms them.

I didn’t know it was rape at the time. I’m afraid I now feel that as a woman we still have to protect ourselves, something I’ve taught my daughters. Writing it down and recalling it has made me realise how horrific it was. I can also remember in the same era my sister and I in a nightclub being summoned over by a footballers security. We talked for a bit, he complimented us and was all hands. Nothing else happened. That footballer is now in his late 40s, married. Was that wrong? I don’t know. Was that another near miss for an 18 and 16 year old?

I don't know what type of men you know, but the men I know wouldn't.

Do you genuinely believe that men are naturally driven to rape and that the only thing stopping them is the consequences? Because that's a pretty disturbing view.

I believe half the posters here would agree with that, probably the ones who are parents.

It’s actually very concerning if this poster really does believe that being drunk, or anything else for that matter, absolves men of any responsibility for a violent act of force, which is nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and control.

Its just an extension of the OP really isn't it? Rape is apparantly a joint endeavour which if its to be prevented requires effort on both sides. Women, to not go anywhere where a rape could happen, wear anything that could incite rape or be vulnerable enough to be easily raped.
Men, to go about their usual business, knowing if they are ever in danger of raping a woman her prudence will protect them both.

Maybe maybe maybe OR we could look at ONS. We do collect data on these things rather than relying on supposition or police records. No data source is perfect but there is a reason why people can assertively claim that most rapes are committed by somebody known to the victim and that is because this is what the data tells us.

The Nature of sexual assault by rape or penetration, England and Wales: year ending March 2025 data states that 43.2% of rapes are committed by a partner or ex partner, 37.8% by someone else known to the victim, and 16.3% by a stranger. This includes men and women, the data for women only is slightly higher for partners and ex partners, and slightly lower for strangers.

That's fair enough. But OP has framed her concerns in a very disturbing way. You have done far better.

I absolutely agree with it and applaud it. The only thing I would have trouble with is the message that as women we are somehow responsible for keeping men in check. Because on many posts here, there’s definitely an undertone -behave yourself, dress respectfully and don’t drink too much and you won’t get raped isn’t the message we should be sending.

Exactly. It also infantilises men by implying they simply cannot be expected to control their own behaviour! Surely women must manage the circumstances to prevent the poor men from assaulting them 🙄

I can understand the OP’s point to an extent. I think we’re allowed to acknowledge that certain situations carry risks and that it’s sensible to exercise caution, without that automatically being victim blaming. If you’re going back to a hotel room with someone you’re mutually attracted to, it’s reasonable to anticipate that sex might be on the cards. However, expecting sex and being entitled to sex are two entirely different things. Consent isn’t a commitment that cannot be withdrawn.
Equally, a man might reasonably hope or expect that sex will happen, but he still has to respect her decision if it doesn’t.
I think we can have an honest conversation about women assessing risk without suggesting that entering a hotel room amounts to consenting to whatever happens afterwards.
We need to be able to discuss sensible precautions without making women feel responsible for men’s behaviour.

Exactly.

My daughters will be taught that the biggest risk to them are the men they know. They will not be taught to be afraid to walk alone in the dark or to dress in a certain way as it avoids the risk of rape because that simply isn't true.

Thanks you answered for me. The collected data shows that most rapes are by men known to the victim not strangers.
Yes rape is under reported too.

I think it's far more extreme than the OP's first post, her following posts went a bit awry, imo.

Advising women of ways to protect themselves (first poster) and commenting that if she is raped whilst drunk, as long as the rapist is drunk himself, they are both as bad as each other (second poster) ......are worlds apart.

You have said that when you were younger you engaged in behaviour that you now regard as risky/riskier. Why did you do that and how do you not understand why other women might do the same for the same reasons?

Yes, you're right, rereading the initial OP, it was moderate, which I'd overlooked in light of the escalation in her subsequent posts.

I wonder if there's some attempt to desperately cling to the belief that we have some control over whether or not we are sexually assaulted.

It's terrifying to realise that it's just luck, and if some guy decides that we're on the menu there's basically nothing we can do about it.

So we cling to these illusory rules like "if I'm safely home by sunset" or "if I text the cabbie's ID number to a friend" or "if I have just one glass of wine and keep my eyes firmly glued to it so no-one slips anything into my drink" we can keep leaving our house in the morning and have some kind of normal life.

Then we won't be like Those Women who made 'dangerous choices.' We're ok, we'll stay safe.

Is that directed at me?

If so, I certainly did, more than once, e.g., ended up alone in homes of men I hardly knew, hitch hiked all over the country, sometimes solo, etc....and nothing bad ever happened to me, which is why (in answer to another poster) I know that most men, ime, would not rape if they thought they could get away with it.
When we are young, we do do risky things that maybe we wouldn't do as we get older. It's part of life. I just don't think it's bad to let other young women know, maybe because we learn by our own mistakes, so why not share them?

I would certainly not think less of any woman who ignored the advice.

Absolutely NOT ok to be victim blaming, ever. But risk assessment is about reducing the likelihood of something terrible happening in the first place, because when it happens it's too late and your life is changed forever.

I for one am absolutely teaching my daughter that, to go to a hotel room with a man she barely knows, would be a high risk choice. Not high risk because most men are rapists (they are not), but high risk because she has very little chance of being able to help herself if anything goes wrong and she has misjudged him.

Of course there are a million other risks, such as it can also happen with a colleague, a friend (unfortunately) or a partner/husband (tragically - the person you're meant to trust the most). But those are very difficult to mitigate, unless you live as a hermit, have no close relationships etc. But it is easy to reduce the risk of being raped by a stranger in his hotel room by not going there, without this choice affecting your quality of life (you don't need to go to a stranger's hotel room, whereas you have a very legitimate need for friends and partners).

I speak as someone who was raped by a partner of 2.5 years, because he was angry (and ended up admitting this in a text mesage afterwards). Although I reported it to my GP and a women's domestic violence charity, I didn't press charges in the end as I couldn't drag my children through such an experience (and it would have been impossible to hide a court case from teenagers). So yes, I know it can happen anywhere, and with anyone. But I wasn't really able to reduce that risk - we were just on holiday, things were not good and I wanted to end the relationship - whereas my teenage daughter can reduce her risk through certain choices. Should she have to change her behaviour, just because some men are rapists? No, it's a total injustice. But....reality sucks.