Or is this victim blaming?

It is NOT on women to moderate their dress or behaviour

In an ideal world, yes. But we don't live in an ideal world, and that's the whole point. I was driving home in the dark one night, and I had to go under a bridge. There was a pretty young lady walking alone under said bridge, wearing dungarees and nothing underneath, so I could literally see her side breasts. Should she be able to walk around with side boob showing late at night - yes. Should she actually do it? Fucking no.

It isn’t a case of ‘blame’, but of taking responsibility.
If you get drunk and can’t remember what you are doing, and the man is also drunk, how is he more to blame than you?
Better just not to get drunk so you can say no, and leave. Same for him.
Why are men supposed to be somehow in control at all times, even if drunk , but the woman is not responsible at all?

It isn’t a case of ‘blame’, but of taking responsibility.
If you get drunk and can’t remember what you are doing, and the man is also drunk, how is he more to blame than you?
Better just not to get drunk so you can say no, and leave. Same for him.
Why are men supposed to be somehow in control at all times, even if drunk , but the woman is not responsible at all?

I think I get what you mean. Due to the awful people in the world we still need to protect ourselves. In the 90s I found myself through naivety, in situations where I could have come to harm. It happened. I was drunk, the kind of drunk where you don’t care. Two ‘men’ chatted me up, have me some pills. I felt funny, they both had sex with me. I didn’t say no. But I didn’t say yes either, I was on my period at the time and I remember them removing my tampon. This was non consensual, rape. Had I not been drunk, which then opened my mind to taking the pills (date rape drug I assume) it wouldn’t have happened. But there’s no comeback. I don’t know who they are. But if it was a celeb or two and I did know I would definitely come forward and say now that it was wrong. At the time I thought I was just a stupid girl getting myself into that situation

I think I get what you mean. Due to the awful people in the world we still need to protect ourselves. In the 90s I found myself through naivety, in situations where I could have come to harm. It happened. I was drunk, the kind of drunk where you don’t care. Two ‘men’ chatted me up, have me some pills. I felt funny, they both had sex with me. I didn’t say no. But I didn’t say yes either, I was on my period at the time and I remember them removing my tampon. This was non consensual, rape. Had I not been drunk, which then opened my mind to taking the pills (date rape drug I assume) it wouldn’t have happened. But there’s no comeback. I don’t know who they are. But if it was a celeb or two and I did know I would definitely come forward and say now that it was wrong. At the time I thought I was just a stupid girl getting myself into that situation

The manosphere. Incels. Andrew Tate and the rise of misogyny and misinformation easily spread and perpetuated on social media like an ideological virus.

Maybe that’s got something to do with it?

Regardless. Women should not be the ones having to limit their lived experience just in case they get assaulted by men. It also infantilises men and takes away responsibility for their actions because they supposedly just can’t help themselves. Once again the burden shifts to women and we have to shoulder that responsibility.

It’s absolutely not how this should still be playing out and we shouldn’t be shrugging our shoulders and going: ‘Meh; Men will be men, what are you gonna do?’ about it.

Fuck that.

You say you don’t agree with it, but your advice to women is don’t dress or behave in a certain way if you don’t want male attention or to be treated as a sexual plaything. I seriously don’t get why you don’t understand how offensive that is. It is NOT on women to moderate their dress or behaviour, or anything else for that matter, for fear of being assaulted or raped. Men’s behaviour is not the responsibility of women and never will be. Rape or sexual assault cannot be mitigated by the behaviour of the victim, You call yourself a feminist but if you repeated this utter garbage to an actual feminist you’d be handed your arse on a plate.

I don't dispute any of that, but it doesn't address my statement that "acknowledging risk" isn't "victim-blaming" 🤷‍♂️

It definitely doesn’t. But if she didn’t want to consent, why not just stay at home? He obviously didn’t want to know her for her amazing personality. She shouldn’t have to have stayed at home - she should be able to parade naked all around his house without him expecting sex in an ideal world. But obviously he was going to expect sex judging by their previous encounter, so why even go?

I don’t think she’s to blame at all - the rapist is always to blame. But the level of risk there was just insane!

I suspect if you replace the word ‘vulnerable’ with ‘available’ you’ll be nearer the mark as to what this poster really thinks.

Fucking hell. It's depressing enough seeing this scummy kind of commentary from asshole men on twitter, but an apparent woman on mumsnet??
OP obviously your revolting views are victim blaming. You even got as far as well if she will go out dressed like that... Not to mention the suggestion that there is some sort of rape hierachy and stranger rape victims were asking for it more than women raped by people they know.
What is MOST interesting and depressing is the timing of this though. Some of Russell Brand's victims finally got justice yesterday. David Walliams finally stopped being able to injunct himself away from justice today. And today of all days THIS is what you chose to write on the subject of rape. Not how heinous those men are, or how brave their victims were, not what men can do to be better, no what you chose to add to the discourse was is it really victim blaming if I say I know rape is wrong but..... YES, yes it is victim blaming and it is shameful.

It definitely doesn’t. But if she didn’t want to consent, why not just stay at home? He obviously didn’t want to know her for her amazing personality. She shouldn’t have to have stayed at home - she should be able to parade naked all around his house without him expecting sex in an ideal world. But obviously he was going to expect sex judging by their previous encounter, so why even go?

I don’t think she’s to blame at all - the rapist is always to blame. But the level of risk there was just insane!

Because it's really easy to remove your vagina so someone assumes you don't have one🤦🏼‍♀️

If that’s what you’ve taken from my posts then you clearly lack reading comprehension.

It definitely doesn’t. But if she didn’t want to consent, why not just stay at home? He obviously didn’t want to know her for her amazing personality. She shouldn’t have to have stayed at home - she should be able to parade naked all around his house without him expecting sex in an ideal world. But obviously he was going to expect sex judging by their previous encounter, so why even go?

I don’t think she’s to blame at all - the rapist is always to blame. But the level of risk there was just insane!

Stranger rape is rare. Living with a man you know is statistically more risky than walking alone at night when it comes to the risk of rape.

As always, people are piling on with the ‘straw man’ argument.
Yes people get raised by boyfriends/husbands. DV /report it.
Yes people get raped by random strangers in the street - lots recently tho’ they tend not to get media coverage /report it.
The ‘grey’ area is where starstruck people, who by their own admission put their tongue in the anus of a complete stranger, whilst their best friend at the same time gives that man oral sex, pay to go to another of his gigs shortly afterwards, and then 20 years later accuse him of rape.

If that’s what you’ve taken from my posts then you clearly lack reading comprehension.

As always, people are piling on with the ‘straw man’ argument.
Yes people get raised by boyfriends/husbands. DV /report it.
Yes people get raped by random strangers in the street - lots recently tho’ they tend not to get media coverage /report it.
The ‘grey’ area is where starstruck people, who by their own admission put their tongue in the anus of a complete stranger, whilst their best friend at the same time gives that man oral sex, pay to go to another of his gigs shortly afterwards, and then 20 years later accuse him of rape.

Excellent analogy.