Bloke at work, so fed up

For goodness sake, you can see why women end up in relationships with terrible men when blatantly awful behaviour like this is excused in this way.

My seven year old boy makes jokes like this and I am teaching it not too as it upsets his brother, who feels humiliated by it. My son is seven and he is old enough to learn this is not okay, and to be held account for it. There is absolutely no excuse for a grown man capable of holding down a job to not understand this.

Can't believe people are thinking this man means well. I dread to think the sort of people they spend time around. Maybe grew up in one of those relentless 'banter' households where everyone has to take nonstop criticism in the name of 'god it's just a joke lighten up'?

For a man like this, the cost of a lunch is a small price to pay to feel like you've got your claws into and can upset the victim even further. He knew what he was doing. The lunch thing is very calculated. He knew OP was having a bad time due to personal problems, invited her out, no doubt encouraged her to share personal things, and then right when they were about to head back to the office in a better place as colleagues he publicly humiliated her. Twice. Just to make sure she's even more on edge in the future.

BTW the teenage 'whatever' is quite hard to pull off for most people so a vague 'okay!' or 'cool, thanks' before moving on works too.

I'm honestly not sure whether I think you're being unreasonable or not. The comments sound brusque and could be meant in a mean way, which would mean you're not being unreasonable; but if everyone else in the office is laughing along then it sounds more like a personality clash, and that moves into the tricky territory of is the onus to adapt more on him, or more on you?

For my part I think that he's being a little unreasonable for talking to everyone in the office like they're his mates - they're not his mates, they're his colleagues, and some he may be less close so do he should tailor his conversation accordingly. If he can't do that (and some people just can't, conversation is called an art for a reason) then he needs to rein in the humour towards everyone when he's in a professional setting, because where one person may think you're hilarious another may think you're just plain offensive.

I do think everyone should understand that a workplace is also a public space where you can't control other people's conversations if they're within the bounds of the rules - so while you're free to talk about where your holiday is taking place, or your diet, or whatever, anyone else has an equal right to tell you what they think about that if you've brought it into what amounts to a public forum. It might be best to rethink what you talk about there if you're uncomfortable with that - I know there are things I don't talk about in work for that reason myself!

But equally everyone needs to be more tolerant because of that too - you may not want to talk about nails, but if other people do, then the best thing to do is to remove yourself from that conversation and just get on with your day. It's also unlikely everyone in the whole office will want to talk about nails anyway, so there will be other people to talk to if you really want to!

I don't think you're unreasonable for approaching your manager about it if you feel unable to confront him directly. It's usually better to speak to people directly, but not everyone is in the position to do that comfortably in the workplace. A good manager should be able to navigate this situation for both of you. I hope you're all able to sort it quickly.

You need to turn it back on him. Every time. Ask him if he is ok in front of everyone, whenever he is unkind point it out. Gently. He likes control and manipulation and attention. Be the nice one. Keep taking it to hr.

I worked with a much older man some years ago. He had ballsed up many aspects of his life but he had gone to private school and to a good university ( dropped out before graduation) so he thought he was the dogs bollocks.. He liked to 'impress' new people with his ability to read Latin. I bumped into him in town one Saturday and he asked me if I'd like to go for a coffee. Hadn't known him long at this point. He was pleasant and insisted on paying for the coffees. We were chatting about this and that when he suddenly leant back ,looked me up and down and proceeded to earnestly critique the bits of my outfit he liked and the bits I needed to improve on. It was jaw droppingly rude . Wtf.

Next time he opens his gob I’d just respond with “Can you just shut up please? I’m sick and tired of hearing your supposedly funny comments. It’s fucking boring.”

Then if anyone dares to pull you up on it I’d just fall back on his argument “it’s just my sense of humour”.

Failing that I’d go grey rock with him.

That was a very elaborate plan. He enjoyed setting that up, he enjoyed putting it into action and he enjoyed your response.

And he likes that feeling a lot.

Others will be more qualified than I to say but it almost has a fetish feel to it. I have no strong advice but I would be very careful about feeding that beast ever again.

How can shouting out in front of other people /strangers "Have you farted that's mingling?" ever be seen as meaning well but going about things clumsily ? FFS.
I can only think people who say/think this must be twats like the OP arsehole colleague.
"It's how they are, haven't you got a sense of humour, just ignore it they are clumsy" Fuck right off with the excuses, the person is an arsehole end of.

He obviously is crude, but I can't imagine tell your boss or manager about something that is not work related and expecting them to do something about the situation.

If I were your boss, I would have been less than happy that you chose to skip of work for that reason, and that you brought this issue into the work place as some king if work related issue. It is somewhat akin to " telling on someone. "

The more appropriate thing to do is to avoid his company in as any situation that is not specifically required for the performance of work related tasks.

YANBU, he's an absolute bellend. I hate people who are nasty pricks and try to pass it of as 'banter'. I've known people who constantly take the piss and you have to watch what you say as they are always looking for excuses to be sarcastic and knock you down. Exhausting.
To be honest, I do think he was trying to be nice, as in I genuinely think he wasn't trying to intentionally upset you at the cafe. However, he is still a thoughtless prick and was out of order.
Try not to engage with him in future, and don't let him take you out to lunch again. Tell HR if you can, hopefully they will take it more seriously.
You can probably tell I hate people like this so I just would barely speak to him/around him again, but I understand this is tough in a work setting. Be civil, but don't disclose any further details about your life as he'll no doubt use anything he can to take the piss.
Hope you are ok after your bad news last week.

Mari Yes, just be a good little girl and keep quiet. Why should OP have to tiptoe around this arsehole? OP says he does this in the work place too, I have no doubt that he targets others too.
If it's not called out nothing changes.

This is another good response.

Turn it back on him with concern.

Ignore the content of whatever nasty thing he has said and say:

Tim, is everything okay? You seem really stressed and upset at work lately. What's going on?'

It's a bit snide but it works to take the wind out of their sails.

Nah. As a boss, I disagree.

Part of being a manager (unless you're STRICTLY managing something that doesn't involve people) is being a point of contact when your reports are unhappy with things. If there's a pattern and someone is constantly coming to me with what seems like petty things then it becomes a bigger conversation around how happy they are in the workplace and whether they need further support. But I would very much be open to hearing about a member of staff feeling bullied by another member of staff. At the very least I would be consulting with HR then asking them to keep a diary of each time it happened/what was said before bringing this guy in for an informal chat about his workplace conduct and making sure he knew that part of being a productive employee is having civil workplace relationships.

why go to the trouble of taking me out to lunch, paying for it, talking me down from the bad news I’d had, making me feel so much better and then basically knocking me straight back down again as soon as we got outside?

Probably some twisted power thing, as in "build 'em up and knock 'em down", and he's enjoying playing with you like a cat with a mouse

My own go-to in situations like this is to ask clearly, in everyone's hearing, "Why would you choose to behave like this?". Worth trying perhaps, and if that doesn't work I'd seriously consider escaling this to a formal grievance if your manager fails to rein him in

I have a relative like this. And reading this has helped me see that I need to challenge it. Every time. So thank you for sharing your experience.

Yep, come to say the same as this.
Maybe try and think of some witty replies. Eg the ‘have you farted?’ I probably would have just said “no darling, I think it’s your breath”.
What do the others in your office think of his sense of humour? Are they offended too?

I was going to post something very similar to this.

This is bullying, and bullying at work is a serious issue. The employer has a duty of care to stop this sort of behaviour, which has been shown to have adverse impacts on physical and mental health. It doesn't matter if it is "his sense of humour", he needs to save his sense of humour for "banter" with his mates (if he's actually got any).

Check out your employer's bullying policy, and if your manager doesn't address it effectively and in accordance with the policy, take it higher, and raise a formal grievance, if necessary.

The bloke's an utter arse. I'd be interested to know if this behaviour extends to male colleagues. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that it doesn't.

People where I work have been put on performance management plans for less than this.

He sounds rather socially awkward, sometimes well-meaning and sometimes nasty or perhaps using misplaced humour. Tell him when he's being out of order and shut down the conversation. With the fart thing I'd just have ignored him and walked off in the other direction. With the ghost hunt thing I'd say it's just a bit of a laugh. When I want his detailed analysis on my interests I'll let him know, other than that, keep his beak out and try having more respect.

You're not being sensitive - he's a bully and his behaviour is inappropriate and needs dealt with.

When someone pushes my buttons too far I have been known to be very cutting. If it were me. Next time he said something belittling, I'd probably say, loudly and clearly in front of everyone (as he does to you).

"You know, Dave, at first I thought your put-downs were to mask your deep insecurities with yourself and I felt sorry for you, then I thought there was a glimmer of a heart in there when you took me for lunch. But I've since realised that you are just a complete and utter cunt."

And I'd leave it there. If your manager tells you off, just say "Oh you know Dave, he loves the bants!".

I ended up going straight home as I was so upset. I’ve called my manager and told him what happened and he’s bringing him in today for a discussion but has basically said it’s his sense of humour.

I am one of the people who is really upset to see the end of office humour and banter - but THIS isn't "banter" or "humour" - it is bullying and particularly spiteful bullying at that. Don't let your manager brush it off as "humour" - that vile man deliberately lured you into a false sense of security by pretending to be thoughtful and sympathetic, just to set you up for a foul "joke" and public humiliation. Let your manager know that this is the culmination of months (years?) of similar unpleasant behaviour.

That was a cruel and disgusting thing to do - especially as he was aware that you are particularly vulnerable at the moment.

I wonder how he (or your manager) would feel if someone made remarks about him like that - wouldn't like it at all, I'll bet.

Oh - I like that! (Except for the "c" word - I wouldn't use that because it is so horrible it puts you in the wrong (it shouldn't in the circumstances, but it will).

Stick to "*rsehole"

To be honest, I do think he was trying to be nice, as in I genuinely think he wasn't trying to intentionally upset you at the cafe.

then it's about time he learned not to be so crass. He's an adult - this juvenile "humour" should be about 20 years behind him by now.

@finallygotospeaktoSky
As far as I know most work places do not have an requirements that you like or socialize with your co-workers.
The OP does not have to tiptoe around this man. The OP can , in a very adult manner, let him know that she does not appreciate his humor. She can then avoid being in break chats, lunches , happy hour settings with him.

The work place is not a school setting in which you tell the teacher when a classmate hurts your feelings.
It is appropriate to report a co-worker if they are violating company policy i.e. harassment, record confidentiality, etc. Generally speaking. adults should be capable of managing these types of situations on their own.

As a manager, I would not expect my reports to bring such issues to me. If they were to do so, I would seriously question the adult decision making abilities of both parties.

The manager's response indicated that he or she is aware of the person' s behavior, and yet he remains employed. That to me would be a strong indicator that management is aware and has determined that not to be a employment related offense.

if everyone else in the office is laughing along then it sounds more like a personality clash, and that moves into the tricky territory of is the onus to adapt more on him, or more on you

I disagree. If OP lets it be known that this behaviour is unwelcome and that she finds it inappropriate and upsetting, he should be told not to behave like this towards her. It doesn't matter if the rest of the team are tolerating it or even find it amusing. He needs to understand that he can't assume that's the case for everyone, and modify his behaviour appropriately where the OP is concerned.