Nandy on R4

[poshme]

Just missed it but DH messaged me- she was asked about women's place apparently. She's still on but moved on to different topic.

He says worth listening again...

If you listen on Sounds, you can rewind (about 5 mins back from now).

I am banging my head.

She was appealing I’m afraid. Anyone who questions the ideology is a transphobic bigot. The end.

“Appealing”? Do you mean “appalling”? It’s just that I thought she really wasn’t very convincing and wondered what I was missing...

She kept repeating "if you start from the position that TWAW then ...".

I really wanted him to questions that starting point.

Justin Webb sounded like he couldn't believe it 'You want them EXPELLED, actually EXPELLED from the party?'

Doubling down rather than listening to women then

So, there will be no place in the UK for women that trans women can’t access.
Because TWAW. And that’s where she starts from.
No Place.
Also fluffed the bit about expelling. Not expelling people who “disagree”, but not clear about what disagreeing with. But expel people who are “harming”.
Justin was good, but I wish he would be more specific. Eg If someone does not agree TWAW, will they be expelled? Are they “transphobic”? He came close but didn’t quite nail it.
We need specifics.
If someone wants the TAVI investigated because of concerns, 35 resignations, is that trans phobic?
If someone does not want to undress in front of a person with male body, is that transphobic?
Also need to nail home what a TW is. Ie someone who SAYS they are a woman.

"We need to calm this debate down", says woman calling Woman's Place UK a "hate group" and insisting anyone who thinks that transwomen are transwomen should be expelled from the party...

FFS

It’s will open eyes. Labour are dangerous to women.

Keeping women safe is just like keeping child soldiers from opposing armies apart.
Ok Lisa.

She was awful.

...TWAW.... boy soldiers (well, a refreshing change from "violent lesbians" I suppose....blah blah

Meaningless twaddle - and no recognition of women's single sex spaces that are protected under the law, and should remain so.

No logic involved at all, and an appeal for everyone to calm down. Ok Lisa, thanks for that.

I wish she could have clarified exactly how a male bodied person changes into a woman......at what point does this miracle happen?

If you start from the truth that TWANW then we can keep protections for women in place.

She is an idiot. But she has a trans friend so that all ok the. She knows everything there is to know. And y’know she’s half Asian so she knows all about oppression. And there are child soldiers (what about those boys sisters and mums who don’t fight - but are kidnapped and raped?)

The thing is, did they not see what happened with Jo Swinson?! I'm not saying that Jo lost so badly specifically because of her ridiculous stance on this specific issue, but it obviously wasn't a vote winner was it?

Why are they reflecting, self evaluating and learning? It's bizarre!

No the party has been washed - they aren’t thinking for themselves.

Why aren't they reflecting etc....

She thinks that WPUK are causing harm to trans people. But she can't be more specific about this harm. I don't think she know who they are.

She is saying what she sees in tweets and memes - and what her mate tells her. Thick as poo that one.

Absolute madness that you can state your position with such conviction without evening defining the words you are saying. What is a Transwoman? What is transphobia? What is non binary if sex isn't binary in the first place? What are the bloody rules?
I've noticed a few labour MPs saying this topic never came up on the doorstep. Of course it didn't, I'm hard pushed to find anyone round my way who knows anything about it, let alone what the implications might be. I'm disappointed in Nandy more than the rest because I know Wigan very well and to me this is a sort of grooming of her constituents who are decent people and will want to do and say the right thing, they'll have a fear of offending so they'll go with it. We can't always articulate why we don't agree with something without it coming across as we just don't like it (= transphobic?) and I think that is being exploited. What are the labour party if they are not a voice to people like us?

That ‘calm the debate down’ was the line that Starmer used last night on NewsNight. Nandy is taking this line she says to show support to a young transgender person in her constituency.

When she says this, it really does not sound like she has thought much about why people are saying this all or nothing approach is wrong. She is only considering one side of this and that she hasn’t deeply given time and consideration to the fact that there really is a need for keeping single sex spaces and sports and provisions in employment law.

She was idiotic and didn't really answer his questions. The most important one she answered, I thought, was whether there would be any places in the UK where male-bodied people would not be allowed. She said 'No'. On the issue of expulsion, he pushed her. She said she wouldn't want 'people who disagree' expelled, just those who 'want to harm other people'. She came across as a f*wit.

I heard it. I can't tell you how disappointed I am in her on this.

She is considering one person then. One person = pissing on the rights of 51% (well more than 51% by her reckoning) of the population.

I caught this. She really is an idiot. Justin has been very good on this but I think was genuinely gobsmacked by her stance, as should be anyone with an ounce of common sense.