Nandy on R4

[poshme]

Just missed it but DH messaged me- she was asked about women's place apparently. She's still on but moved on to different topic.

He says worth listening again...

Do we know exactly who the originators are?

They appear to all be troubled, trans or non binary people in their twenty's who need to 'fight for their existence' against individuals and groups who have a 'fundamental hatred of trans people'

They all seem very immature with little life experience. If any of them have a job they never mention it on social media and lots seem to live with their Mums. I guess that must the fault of us awful Mumsnetters?

I've noticed a few labour MPs saying this topic never came up on the doorstep.

It certainly will the day they rock up on my doorstep. They lost thousands of votes in this constituency in the last election.

I actually have the listen again primed to play, but I am not sure I want to bother. What's the point?

I'm shocked at their complete lack of leadership skills actually, lack of passion, dynamism, inspiration. They just do not instil confidence at all.

I'm not sure if it is because my rose-tinted spectacles broke, but the are all very lacklustre, and I can't see any of them having potential to be in government at the moment (or ever TBH).

They are openly exposing the utter arrogant lack of any kind of inclusive or compassionate or even basically socialist thinking here, there's just a lot of lip service and hypocrisy. It's revolting. It's no longer just fashionable to look down on women, it's become actively virtuous and DoublePlusGood to spit on them.

This.

In the last 48 hours a women in a breastfeeding old babies Facebook page was demonised for replying to a women calling it chest feeding by politely sharing a link on why calling it breastfeeding is important.

Followed by my 3 YEAR OLD returning from nursery to tell me that 'F' was wearing a spinny dress today and doesn't want to play with the boys anymore and now I'm deeply worried that instead of 'F' being allowed to freely expressed he could be at the start of a trans journey because his parents are that kind of parent.

I don't view my beliefs as radical I have no problems sharing women's spaces with transwomen who have fully committed to living as women but I don't want dick in the same changing room as my daughter's. Why is that seen as so extreme?

I'm just angry, really angry.

I hope WPUK do take legal action. There are plenty of us, I'm sure, who are no longer paying party membership or union fees who will be happy to divert our saved subs to a crowdfunder.

Do we know exactly who the originators are? I feel it's almost like a spoof designed to catch out the "woke". I can't really believe the group exists. Still, I find it even harder to believe politicians have signed it.

You can find out who some of the originators are online. It isn't a spoof. As I said in another thread it reminds me of this:

https://edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

This video is doing the rounds online as "proof" of WPUK's transphobia, even though WPUK say they can't see the video and have pointed people to all the videos of public events.

Does anyone know what meeting this is from? mobile.twitter.com/mimmymum/status/1177953893994635264

You can see the names of the originators if you click on the link within this tweet, and scroll to the bottom.

twitter.com/Labour_Trans/status/1226939313264394241

Eden Ladley is on there. Eden Ladley co-wrote the (now removed) "How to deal with TERFS" slideshow, and has links to Jess Bradley, Lily Madigan and (weirdly) Emma Healey who was an intern at MNHQ who published Mumsnetter's IP addresses on twitter.

I won't link to it all - but there are various threads on MN that can be searched for.

Does anyone know what meeting this is from?

Yes. It's not WPUK, it's Venice Allan's "We Need to Talk" meeting. I believe the one that ran just after TRAs punched Maria McLachlan to the ground at Speaker's Corner.

Some may disagree with me, but I don't think there's anything wrong with what Julia Long says in that video. She's demonstrating that "woman is not a costume" - that males cannot simply become women by putting on make up, nail varnish, women's clothing etc.

Why do you start from the position that TWAW?

Conclusions are where you finish, after examining facts and hearing from all sides.

Move over Tarquin fttimbimlimbim ole biscuitbarrel and Jethro Q Walrustitty, the New Silly Party is after your votes.

This video is doing the rounds online as "proof" of WPUK's transphobia, even though WPUK say they can't see the video and have pointed people to all the videos of public events.

Not that there is anything wrong with Julia Long's speech, which I watched in person, but this has nothing to do with WPUK who I believe weren't founded until after Speakers Corner happened.

Yes. It's not WPUK, it's Venice Allan's "We Need to Talk" meeting. I believe the one that ran just after TRAs punched Maria McLachlan to the ground at Speaker's Corner.

Correct on all counts.

These people are so misogynistic that they lump all disobedient women into one amorphous mass.

Thank you! It is shocking that WPUK have denied any involvement and not daft (on other issues) labour activists are accusing them of being disingenuous.

This is so toxic. Labour will be in the wilderness for a very long time.

A feminist on Vic Derbyshire has just asked the about the TWAW thing, and about labour women only short lists.

RLB just said 'we have to disagree because TWAW and TMAM" and then started talking about homeless men. WTF??

RLB can't answer "what is a woman" - just starts waffling on about transwomen, and how "incredibly difficult" transitioning is.

Lisa Nandy agrees. And there's a real problem with women's organisations, and she will talk to and debate with anyone reasonably wantint a debate, but if you don't recognise trans people exist, there is no meaningful dialogue.

Keir - transpeople face incredible abuse etc. Political football blah blah.

YET AGAIN - the question was about WOMEN. The answers are all about TRANS.

Women are just nobodies to the Labour Party.

I don't think Labour have anything further to say to me.

I don't think my blood pressure can take that. And I'm sure Derbyshire simpering as always.

'What is a woman? What are the main challenges faced by women today?'

I'd be interested to see how each of them answer that, and whether those answers focus the penis-having women (and not in the context of challenges to the other kind.) I wonder if any of them have given the slightest thought to actual women's issues?

Vic Derbyshire did, to her credit, ask them 'but what is a woman?' - but didn't push it further.

I think it's all very clear - under Labour, women will not be defined by their biological sex, as a legal category. They will do all the things Stonewall want them to, including get rid of the EA exemptions.

They will say they uphold single sex spaces, but since those spaces will be unable to exclude "any male who identifies as a woman" - these spaces will be meaningless.

Thank you for watching it so I don't have to.

I am so with the Labour Party. I kept hoping there were little glimmers of light showing but there aren't.

These people are so misogynistic that they lump all disobedient women into one amorphous mass.

I think there's two things going on here. The TRAs know perfectly well that WPUK is a very different organisation from the movements run by Venice, Posy, Julia and so on, and that WPUK is always polite and respectful, platforms trans people and so on. They know that, but they deliberately lie about it because they want other people to believe that WPUK is a horrid organisation that hates trans people. The one thing TRAs have demonstrated time and time again is their eagerness to tell outright, malicious lies about gender-critical feminists.

The second thing is that you have people like Nandy, Thornberry and the rest of the woke crowd who are too lazy to do their own investigating, so they just believe what the TRAs tell them. So if the TRAs tell them that WPUK, an organisation run by left-wing feminists with long histories of activism in the labour movement, hates trans people, then they'll go along with it.

And that, sisters, is the quality of the candidates aspiring to lead the major opposition party and one day the country. Reflect upon that and weep.

Yup. These are the women who are supposed to represent us, these are apparently the best Labour can offer (not true, I now understand exactly why Yvette Cooper and others are standing well back and why Jess Phillips dropped out) and they are awful. I feel ashamed and let down and incandescently angry with the stupid, spineless, uncritical women being offered to me as Labour leaders. I don't feel quite so angry with Keir Starmer because he's a man and I wouldn't expect much from him.

This is so utterly contemptuous of Labour women. I'm booked to go to my Labour MPs surgery and make it clear that I'm out not just as a member but also as a supporter unless this nonsense is dropped. I urge everyone here to do likewise. And email and write to Nandy et al and make it clear where you stand. Burst their bubbles.

I'm new to this topic. What's the issue with trans women? Surely women support them as they are identifying as women.

I saw some bloke on Newsnight saying 'a man is not a woman'/'a woman is not a man'. I thought he was a dangerous dinosaur