Nandy on R4

[poshme]

Just missed it but DH messaged me- she was asked about women's place apparently. She's still on but moved on to different topic.

He says worth listening again...

So depressed by this. Was going to vote for her but can't now. How can you discuss if everything is so policed that any questions become an expression of bigotry?

If woman's place is a hate group, what about nia, southall black sisters, centre for women's justice, even though fawcett society with their timid support of maybe not silencing all women?

She wants a debate with decency and compassion. She doesn't seem to know that's what WPUK want as well, but the people she supports have tried to stop them with violence and threats, because #nodebate.

Sharing this again - it's a great critique:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/02/do-rebecca-long-bailey-and-angela-rayner-have-a-problem-with-trans-people-like-me/

I was very impressed with Justin’s responses. He basically took the line of ‘wtf?’ and let her comments speak for themselves.

Anyone listening who doesn’t have an idea of the issues will have been scratching their heads at her lack of logic.

Listening now.

Honestly, the sheer STUPIDITY of a person who wishes to be in a position to make law, and who intends to do that with a single individual in mind. Yes Lisa, I'd like to be a political leader if it meant I could make policies that benefitted my mates to the exclusion of everyone else.

Batshit crazy, but there for all to hear. Justin Webb clearly baffled and embarrassed for her.

Shouting at the radio while driving isn’t a good start to the day.

What is Starmer’s view about this? I’m a registered supporter and I’ll be pretty pissed off if I have paid £25 for the privilege of spoiling my ballot.

Can’t believe I’m in a position where there are three women to vote for and none of them comes close to suitable.

Wow. I would like to know on what basis she has classifiedWPUK as a ‘hate group’. Where is the evidence for this? What are her sources? On what basis should they be expelled?

Very upsetting to hear Nandy's views.

Yes, of course the trans person in her constituency should not face bullying or discrimination. What reasonable person would think they should? Not WPUK, not LGB Alliance.

But this seems to be the sum total of her argument. Be nice, be kind. It's thought terminating - and designed to be.

Unless Nandy and the others look at the bigger picture, and apply some intellectual curiosity and critical thinking to this then we are heading for very dark times.

The sad and stupid thing is that her thinking doesn't do anything to protect trans people. We need proper medical research into cross sex hormones, puberty blockers, the harms caused by surgery. Making gender non conforming people into life long medical patients, with the associated risks to their health, fertility and quality of life, causes irrevocable harm.

Not being able to properly analyse medical and social data due to id defined by gender rather than sex harms all of us.

And just why does she think we have spaces segregated by sex in the first place?

Transwomen are not actual women, Lisa. No mention of transmen of course.

As for child soldiers

She has a friend who is transitioning. So - she knows things.

So if she was my friend she would be battling for red haired people and waging war against arses who abuse people with red hair.

Labour - is - dead

I'm so angry I just realised I posted on the wrong thread...

I am so beyond angry I might have an aneurysm. How dare these people? How DARE they call women a hate group? How dare they slander us for wanting to protect our existing legal rights? How dare they use such moronic comparisons such as violent lesbians and Eritrean boys (WTF?!) and expect to be taken seriously?

The Labour Party is dead. The one positive is that this guarantees no self ID as the tories won't touch it with a ten foot barge pole. Considering the problems the SNP has they'd be wise to quietly drop it too.

The only positive is that as labour - a party I’ve voted for all my life - won’t be anywhere near power for at least 10 years, labours 100% endorsement of self ID no questions asked won’t become law anytime soon by which point I hope that country will have regained some semblance of sanity

I hope WPUK will have her for defamation. I'll contribute to the crowd funder.

The only conclusion I can make from these statements is that MPs really do live ina Westminster bubble where they hear rhe voices of corporate lobbies far louder than the electorate's. Make no mistake, Stonewall is very much part of that corporate lobby, it is rainbow washing xorpororate money. I would love to see a break down of their donations to see whether there is direct conflict of interest. If they are being paid by paid by companies that profit from all this, it should be out there.

None of these candidates want to upset Stonewall. In the long run truth will out but the lie is half way round the world before the truth gets its boots on and the candidates only care about this election.

She's based her views on one single young person in her constituency. It's likely, since this is a young person, that many of us would view that person as vulnerable and be sympathetic to their distress.

Has she never heard of the older men who transition and put their wives and children through hell? Has she never heard of Karen White and the disproportionate number of prisoners who identify as trans? Apparently all just vulnerable women with penises to Lisa, and we should all stop being so mean to them.

I agree that Labour will get nowhere near no 10, if they carry on with this policy.

Do they honestly think they will win back the Red Wall by telling people they are Transphobic for not believing TWAW.

They are fucking IDIOTS.

How do such thick people end up in positions of power?

I know that's not a very constructive comment but it's all I can manage as I sit here awaiting my expulsion.

"What is Starmer’s view about this"

keeping his head down, a bit cowardly but right now I would take the coward over the lunatics.

Agree it sounded as though it was a young person with gender dysphoria she was talking about as the family seemed very involved. Has she not read statistics on desistance and any views suggesting the long waiting list is a good thing for these people as so many change their minds before they have permanent changes done to their bodies with cross sex hormones?
She has a good speaking voice but the content is dangerous nonsense. She has obviously paid no attention to our side of the debate if she thinks women's Place are a hate group.
Shame she wasnt pressed to clarify in what way a male wearing a wig with no other modifications is a woman. What does the word woman mean if men can be women too?
I liked her initially but she is just parroting slogans and doesnt seem to have the intellect to be a party leader or the sort of leader who can resist totalitarianism.
The way to calm down debates is to expel those who disagree with you? Scary.

I feel a bit freaked out by all this tbh.

The fact that they are doubling down shows that these four politicians have not given this issue one minute of constructive thought, not considered calmly any of the points that are made so reasonably and eloquently by feminists. Not taken seriously the point that men as a sex class impose risk of violence on women as a sex class.

Stupidity is so much harder to fight ☹️

Woman’s Place UK might to have to pick out one of the defamers, a high profile one with something to lose, and send them a letter before action for defamation. Long-Bailey wouldn't be a good choice, her judgement is lacking (see her highly fictionalised account of her past) and she would probably have more regard to what the Momentum members think than what would be sensible.

Nandy would be a better choice.

There are also interesting timing choices. It would make sense to get a letter before action sent, and covered in the press, before the ballot opens on 21 February with a deadline for response in the balloting period, that is up to 2 April.

So, both ‘Empire’ and now ‘Sex’ are going to be removed from vocabulary.

Might as well remove ‘Brain’ next - it has also become irrelevant.

My goodness. There are lots of people who know somebody with a disability or long-term condition. Vanishingly few people know things about the disability/condition by osmosis based on this. And that might even be despite the affected person telling them lots of things.

I know people with children who are transitioning. I have known, met ,and worked with trans women (never a trans man). My perspectives and opinions etc. plus view of the science differ from Nandy.

I agree that WPUK and LGB Alliance should consider a libel action. I'm not usually one for suing people but this is beyond the pale.

As a LP member I hope they never get back into power if this is the dangerous shit they're going to peddle.

It is unbelievable