Woman's Hour Tues 20/11/18 "Why is the current debate about sex and gender so often called “toxic” - we hear from @Bex_Stinson and @helenlewis"

[MrsSnippyPants]

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1064804876327235584

Bex: The head of trans inclusion at stoneswall.

I've not heard of Helen Lewis.

Oh. Well at least Helen thinks sex sort of exists. Has no bearing on woman or manhood though. Interesting.

Helen Lewis is pretty good - she is associate editor of the New Statesman and is mostly gender critical. I think I have seen her say that she believes TWAW, which is a bit odd.

Here's a piece by her:

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/10/problem-gender-self-id-designed-solve-real-debate-has-failed

She's a journalist. Mostly gender critical. But tries to sit on the fence a bit too much for my liking. She has written some good stuff though.

TRAs think she's a massive evil transphobe for her GC opinions, of course.

Helen Lewis is a good journalist. But she is obviously shit scared of addressing this directly. I have heard her being gender critical on the New Statesman podcast and then in the next sentence says, but I believe transwomen are women'. Totally dishonest. She should leave it well alone if she is too frightened to go there. She has my sympathy - we all know the shit women journalists get for talking about this. As it is, she is called a TERF anyway, so she might as well finish the half processed logic in her head.

She's also been writing a book on feminism, which is not going to go down well with anyone at all if she doesn't get off the fence.

I like her though, she's funny.

She's going to be damned if she does and damned if she doesn't then.

Wishing her luck!

But tries to sit on the fence a bit too much for my liking.

For mine too.

I like her too.

Breastfeeding is spot on.

I also get a bit frustrated with HL but her fence sitting strategy has allowed her to keep her job at the NS and use it to allow other gender critical voices to speak, so overall I think she is very much a Good Thing.

Agree on the fence sitting but hopefully Helen was listening yesterday when all 3 TRAs came across dreadfully and will now come down off the fence.

It really did seem yesterday that a line had been crossed and the TWAW ideology is being recognised for the incoherent mess that it is

Really crossing my fingers that Helen feels able to come down off the fence Jemima.

"I also get a bit frustrated with HL but her fence sitting strategy has allowed her to keep her job at the NS and use it to allow other gender critical voices to speak"

Countess, yes certainly Glosswitch and Sarah Ditum have had a strong GC voice at NS and I believe (can't remember where I read this) that Helen Lewis has been very supportive of both. So good on her there.

I think Bex is like India W and favours the tactic of making it personal. 'Poor me, I'm just a harmless lady trying to live my life and wanting to be part of the gang, why would you ostracise me?'

It really annoys me as it's such a reductive and disingenuous way to view the issue and the ideology, but countering it makes the GC person look like a meanie (cf Posie on This Morning.) I imagine Bex has been practicing their wounded voice.

Dammit missed yesterday's one...

Wow Jane is really asking key questions.

"Why can't we discuss live?" ....

Toxic hmm like DIAF ?

Neuro some one linked to yesterday's on the thread about it

It feels like WH is back speaking for actual women. These questions are so important.

Really no trans voices ?

No I think it feels like JG has woken up