Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #67

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

No, we want to hear how you’d label all these different changing rooms. We need a laugh.

How absolutely desperate are these TIMs to get into women's facilities and services? Everything ultimately boils down to their need to access our toilets, changing rooms and rape centres, to the point that they will try anything in their arrogance to pretend the Supreme Court is incorrect and misrepresent the ruling.

Quite.

as I have said, and been ignored by those for whom this scenario doesn’t suit their narrative, when I asked that I be given a female clinician, and was assured I would be, I don’t expect a trans woman to turn up.

Some people also disagree thst the world is round and that the moon landings were real. I give your opinion the same respect.

I'm developing a nut allergy as I type.

I get the idea that Lacksie is a sort of opposite of SP. SP exits the women’s changing room when there’s a man in there; L would prefer to wait in the corridor until there’s a man in there, to demonstrate her inclusivity.

They do not prohibit an employer from also providing an additional changing facility for women, including trans women, while excluding other men, provided that arrangement complies with the Equality Act.

Please can you explain how a changing facility for women, including trans women, while excluding other men can comply with the Equality Act? Forcing women to change in front of males is indirect sexual discrimination.

You think that's a woman you are responding to?

I look forward to this world of chaos where the pump labelled unleaded might contain petrol or diesel. Entitled motorists don't have the right to assume that because it is green and says unleaded that it actually despenses unleaded.

should I admit to having put petrol in a diesel car coz my car is petrol and I was on automatic pilot?

the AA would be busy.

Some of the coffee they sell in these places comes out of the petrol pump I'm sure. It's definitely not coffee. I look forward to Green instead of Red diesel for my tractor. It's a prettier colour.

In other words, your repeated, in different words, claim that
The changer can be for women and trans women, only, and labelled for women, as long as there is another no less favourable service for men
is not correct.

If a facility is labelled 'women', it is only for biological women, full stop.
Any biological men, like DrU, are not allowed to use it.
It's really that simple!

Indeed - I’m not sure @Lacksie has already used this argument or not but I suspect they would argue that a trans person needs to use the single sex facilities of their chosen identity because otherwise they would risk being “outed”. In healthcare this leads exactly to the scenarios you describe , if a woman ( or man) requests single sex care , would that trans person still see them or would they “out” themselves to colleagues and say they couldn‘t. To do the former could constituent an assault.

Lacksie did use that exact argument, in another thread (the one that was deleted).

You seem to have been up most of the night UK time and still posting through the morning. Perhaps you should get some sleep and perhaps you’ll see things more clearly? What time of day is it with you?

Can I just add to this excellent post that there are instances where visitor facilities are covered by legislation too in the precursor to the 1992 legislation. Also Building Regulations need to be adhered to and venues can be prosecuted if they are found to be negligent. This includes prioritising single sex toilets.

I am starting to see more interest in designs and standards for example they were noted in the DfE 2026 design guidance for schools. This is welcome and overdue - for a few years the unregulated term gender-neutral had crept in. This must be down to FWS. It has such far-reaching implications for safeguarding they may not have even contemplated. I can’t thank them enough.

I enjoyed the pouched rat diversion too although I initially read it as poached rat 😂Hopefully that is not on the menu!

Careful, someone will have a recipe for that.

A TW of my acquaintance truly thought they passed because they are a slight build and have thin wrists. He grew his hair and wore skirts. I really think he is completely unaware of how everyone clocks him as male. He is quite autistic and struggles to process someone else’s perspective.

A TW work colleague is about 220lb 6 foot male who wears a dress and otherwise has no ‘feminine’ markers. Any woman running into him in the toilets would definitely not feel comfortable asking/telling him to leave.

It was not said specifically but, in light of the law, any woman using a changing room labelled "women" has a reasonable expectation that it will only contain biological women. If there is a man in there she has an easy case for harassment and possibly also discrimination against whoever decided to allow the man in.

The scenario of the biological sex of a trans-IDing male colleague only being revealed if, shock horror! they used the men's is very unlikely.

DrU, for instance, was recognised as trans by his colleagues acc to evidence given at the original tribunal, I don't know if that was some, most, many or 'duh- all' but I imagine it wasn't the best-kept secret in the hospital.

It appeared from the evidence that all the women who used the same changing room a DrU knew he was a biological male, because much was made of the fact that none of them except SP had, allegedly, any problem with sharing the women's changing room with a biological male.

Nobody on the Fife side argued that everybody except SP thought that DrU was a biological woman and therefore unproblematically entitled to be in the women's CR.

I don't buy this 'outing' thing, and if it's 'outing' for a trans-IDing male doctor to do the right thing and step back from treating a patient who has specifically asked for a woman doctor... well, that just highlights the fundamental problem of claiming to be something you're not, it will catch up with you eventually.

Quite.

Gourmet Sewer-to-Table Poached Rat

Prep time: 15 minutes (or 2 hours if it won't stop running)
Cook time: 45 minutes
Yield: Serves 2 adventurous souls (or 1 very desperate pirate)

Ingredients
1 prime city rat (preferably ethically sourced from behind a five-star French restaurant)
4 cups swamp water (filtered through a clean sock, if you're fancy)
2 local mud bricks (crushed, for body)
1 bundle roadside weeds (dandelions, stinging nettles, or whatever the neighbor is trying to spray)
3 rusty nails (for that classic, deep iron flavour)
A pinch of sawdust (to mimic the texture of fine parmesan cheese)

Preparation Steps

The Catch & Release (Into the Pot):
Acquire your rat. If it is currently wearing a tiny chef's hat and whispering cooking secrets to you, do not cook it. That is a culinary advisor. Find a less talented one.

The Spa Treatment:
Gently scrub the rat with an old toothbrush. Pluck any premium, artisanal dumpster debris from its fur. Leave the whiskers on for a dramatic, avant-garde presentation.

The Aromatics:
In a large, dented tin can or a cauldron, combine the swamp water, crushed mud bricks, roadside weeds, and rusty nails. Bring the mixture to a aggressive, bubbling boil until it smells like an industrial revolution.

The Gentle Poach:
Reduce the heat to a simmer. Carefully lower the rat into the liquid. It should look like it is taking a very relaxing, muddy bath. Cover the pot with a heavy rock to prevent any "sudden resurrections."

The Waiting Game:
Poach for 45 minutes. You will know it is done when the tail curls into an elegant spiral and your roommates start packing their bags to move out.

The Presentation:
Fish the rat out using two sturdy sticks. Place it dead-centre on your finest chipped ceramic plate. Garnish generously with a dusting of fresh sawdust.

Chef’s Note
Pair this dish with a fine, vintage tap water (circa twenty minutes ago) and a side of absolute regret.

I keep being reminded of a conversation related to me by a serving soldier.

Commanding Officer (male)
Ah, Sergeant, I need a quick word. Steve now wishes to be known as Stella and so she will be using the female toilets and changing rooms.
Sergeant (female)
No he fucking won't Sir
CO
Ah, no, that won't do will it. Leave it with me Sergeant.

This is not a problem. There can be lovely designated mixed sex areas where women who wish to undress with men can do so, and where anyone who prefers not to use the space of their own sex can go as an accessible alternative.

Those people just cannot deprive everyone else of their needed single sex spaces, or wrench those spaces into mixed sex to meet their own personal needs.

(How many times now has this been repeated on this and on the 'lets not derail/now deleted thread?)

This is merely about those with gender identity beliefs realising that they really are going to have to tolerate the existence of other people's provisions and rights. That's it. That's all. This is why the 9 mill GI tat in shop and zero everything else thing is relevant. If there was even one suffragette badge in that shop, the GI movement would have had a collective nervous breakdown.