Sandie Peggie: Employment Tribunal, associated legal claims, and related matters - thread #67

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims were of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claimed to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and after a prolonged process judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025. That judgment is being appealed and an appeal hearing is expected to take place in 2027.

A second Employment Tribunal, Sandie Peggie vs Royal College of Nursing, has just been heard. The hearing started on Wednesday 23 September 2026 and ended on Thursday 1 October 2026. It is possible that a decision will be handed down before Christmas of this year.

Additional legal claims have been raised. Sandie Peggie is taking action against three senior managers who were witnesses in the first Employment Tribunal - Dr Kate Searle, Dr Maggie Currer and Esther Davidson, against Carol Potter, the chief executive of NHS Fife, for victimisation, against NHS Fife for discrimination, and against its director of people and culture David Miller for harassment. In addition, Sandie Peggie is being investigated by the Nursing and Midwifery Council over fitness to practice.

The past proceedings were live tweeted by www.x.com/tribunaltweets. Tribunal Tweets are likely to be providing coverage in future proceedings. There's additional information on Tribunal Tweets' substack: www.tribunaltweets.substack.com/.

Links to previous threads #1 to #60 can be found in this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 61: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5472628-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-61 8 January 2026 to 3 August 2026

Thread 62: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5562302-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-62 3 August 2026 to 24 September 2026

Thread 63: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5581909-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-63 24 September 2026 to 27 September 2026

Thread 64: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583133-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-64 27 September 2026 to 29 September 2026

Thread 65: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5583663-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-65 29 September 2026 to 30 September 2026

Thread 66: www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5584074-sandie-peggie-employment-tribunal-associated-legal-claims-and-related-matters-thread-66 30 September 2026 to 1 October 2026

I refuse to engage with that poster. I’m not usually a fan of social exclusion but the misogyny and nastiness, plus the incoherence and waffling seem to suggest this is a good tactic.

I really don't know which way this one will go. IANAL but whilst I think NC showed convincingly that the RCN was so captured by GI that even now it is scared to question it, that is not quite the same as proving that this was the reason they refused SP help. Much as I love NC, she can sometimes come across as soapboxing GC theory and judges sometimes don't like it. I think that's why DH tried to focus it back on the evidence. The RCN made errors and obfuscations, which we here might feel are a slam dunk for Sandie, but I don't know if the judge will see it quite that way.

Upton was a trouble maker, making notes of any perceived slight and inventing patient concerns so he could ruin the career of a nurse who had worked 30 years in the demanding environment of a&e. During that time she will have treated patients from many racial origins and probably some fetishists. Only previous complaint was about having higher standards for nurses than one liked. As people in NHS Fife pandered to Upton he is probably still a trouble maker who no sane health authority would want working for them. That he could not find a post in the uk gives me some encouragement that the entire NHS has not lost its mind. He's now left for Australia where they are probably still pandering to his delusions.

Human brains dont fully develop until 32 on average, seems possible Uptons may take a bit longer. Hopefully one day he'll look back on this and recognise just how obnoxious he was.

Hi @alcovecupboards thanks for being here :). You're not the only one who sees things a different way and is brave enough to dip their toe onto this board 😅. Hopefully more join us one day.

Hmmmm

@Lacksie do you think the Supreme Court was wrong in clarifying that biological males should not be allowed to use female changing rooms, and clarifying that 'female' in this case means biologically female?

Oh, must we do this all again?

Not sure I want to get into this as I have a busy day ahead :)

Very quickly

"biological males should not be allowed to use female changing rooms"

Factually, the court did not actually say this at all. Although this is how it's been widely interpreted included by the court.

and clarifying that 'female' in this case means biologically female?

Female in EA 2010 refers to sex at birth. I don't think this is necessarily wrong - probably not.
However, there was a lot of clarification missing from the judgement that has led to this finding being widely over-interpreted in ways that are incredibly wrong and harmful. So the judgement was very poor and irresponsible in that respect.

NC did not have to prove that RCN refused to help Sandie because they are captured by GI. All she had to show was that Sandie did not receive the support she was entitled to expect from her union and that the union is captured by GI.

There are three ways RCN can win

• by convincing the judge that they offered the same level of support to Sandie as they would to any other member, or
• by convincing the judge that they are not captured by GI, or
• by convincing the judge that any failings in their support for Sandie were not due to them being captured by GI

I think NC has done a good job of showing that they were sufficiently captured by GI that it didn't even occur to them that Sandie might have a valid point about Upton being in the female changing room. However, I have no idea what the judge will make of it.

Unless I've missed something, I can't see this case setting any legal precedents so I hope the ET decides in Sandie's favour. Of course, it may go to the EAT regardless as RCN can appeal if it goes against them.

Lol

.

If the RCN convince the judge that they offered the same level of support to Sandie as they would to any other member then every member's been wasting their subs!

It does seem to be the route the RCN decided to go though 😶

"The way we treated Sandie was exactly the same as we treat everyone because we're shit at our jobs and not up to date on legislation and regulations."

As an aside, I don't think RCN's argument that they would have done better if only Sandie had told them she was GC flies. The support a union gives a member should not be dependent on the member knowing the correct magic incantation.

However, there was a lot of clarification missing from the judgement that has led to this finding being widely over-interpreted in ways that are incredibly wrong and harmful. So the judgement was very poor and irresponsible in that respect.

And you are better qualified than the Supreme Court judges, are you?

Not sure I want to get into this as I have a busy day ahead :)
Always the cop out from the trans activists - you haven't got an argument, so you run away.

Gutted that I missed a pouched rat diversion. Presumably it was another piece of evidence that scratchy little gerbils should not be the feminist support rodent of choice.

Really, we should be prepared to adopt leeches as MN support animals, because they do have a genuine healthcare function.

Loving the mine-clearing bees.

Perhaps we could have an AI illustration of a support leech consoling a heroic bee tragically injured on a minefield.

However, I have no idea what the judge will make of it.

The judge too may be mindful of the transactivists and not want to be subject to threats from them.

For me the best thing about these tribunals is it's bringing the situation out into the open, even in the cases which aren't won.

Exactly, and I would hope that there is some scope that she was by definition expressing a “gender critical” belief even if she didn’t make a statement to that fact.

No there wasn't. The judgement was very detailed and widely considered with multiple examples. You should read it. It was exceptionally clear.

To say Linda, Lydia, Lucy, Laura and Louise are ecstatic is an understatement

I think this is adjacent to the idea that women shouldn't be 'difficult' which I have a signifcant problem with. It is sedimented into our expectations of how women behave. If an advocate finds material shocking they should absolutely bring it into the court for all to see, and if the witnesses are shocked and duiscomfited by it when questioned on the stand why on earth would they let it into actual published guidance.

'Woman' in the Equalities Act refers to biological sex. Sex is determined at conception, not at birth.

@MyThreeWords Leanne says she'll be here later, she's currently busy

Yes, absolutely. The mere fact that she objected to what she correctly perceived as a man in the changing room is criterial for having 'GC beliefs'. It is a shame that the legal manoeuvre successfullly adopted (with good reason) in the Forstater case has the consequence of misrepresenting sex realism as a distinctive belief system rather than simply as ... well ... a subset of realism in general.

Just out of interest, what other instances can we think of in which bog standard commonly held beliefs are misrepresented as something complex and theory-driven?

The only example that currently comes to mind is the quaint title 'theory of mind' that psychologists etc give to a child's realisation that those other than her/himself are orientated to the world in the same way that the child is and perceive it through their own perspectives.

@Lacksie you are back with zero convincing evidence. The arrogance of someone on MN saying the highest court in the land ‘got it wrong’ is jaw dropping. I try on MN to be reasonable but I am doubting you do have a busy day other than disrupting conversations on here between people aghast at how the trans movement has seeped into every institution globally.

I will always refer back to Sal Grover and her quote There are women in prison right now with male sex offenders, there are girls who are not using the bathrooms at schools because boys are in there, there are girls losing their opportunities in sport, it's an absolute decimation of women's rights..."

No, it isn't easier to submit to an ideology you know isn't true, to give up your rights and watch society crumble under the weight of nonsense."

Also - and one that for me really hits the nail on the head

”If you think that women have p**nes I won’t believe a single word you say about anything else, because if you will lie about something so obvious I will assume you lie about everything”