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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

1000 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

OP posts:
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FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 12:48

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:37

Are you taking the piss out of the experience of gender dysphoria?

Absolutely not.

I am trying to get you to experience how the demands made by Genderists about how people with gender dysphoria need to be supported impact other people's sense of self as well, and this also causes distress and humiliation.

Trans people's feelngs and sense of self are not the only measure that is important.

When the language we use to name and understand ourselves is debased this is not a neutral accomodation, it redefines us in ways we may not in fact agree is how we see ourselves.

It is telling though that your first assumption was that my post was "taking the piss" . You assume I am just pretending Genderist language being applied to women distresses me.

I can tell you categorically that it absolutely does distress me.

I have the same emotional reaction - a combination of feeling unsafe, marginalised, misrepresented, powerless, and yes, angry about the powerlessness - from Genderist language being forced on to me as I do to being forced to listen to more traditional sexist language and attitudes in situations in which I do not feel able or supported to speak up.

Again, noticing the pattern of which posts elicit an immediate response and which lie unanswered.

Helleofabore · 30/09/2026 13:04

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 09:09

The point is, that the person who has categorised themselves as being in anyway the opposite sex has done so only via their own constructed understanding of what constitutes as being the opposite sex or the rejection of what they categorise as being their own sex

That's an assumption though. What basis do you have for being so certain about it? There could be many alternative aetiologies.

I am working my way through this thread.

Like what?

What possible alternative is there to a person of one sex category having any understanding at all that what they have described as being the opposite sex experience of life that they then apply to their own life? What possible way is there for them to verify that this experience is actually the opposite sex experience and not just either what they have personally conceptualised as being the opposite sex experience or their own rejection of their own experience as being part of the very wide range of experiences relating to their own sex category?

You seem to be attempting to support your statements with some kind of belief that someone will just ‘know’. That doesn’t hold up to analysis at all as there is absolutely no evidence that can be found to support it.

WaterThyme · 30/09/2026 13:08

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 11:59

This is for the Pathways Trial, so not quite equivalent to a general GD/GI diagnosis. But I imagine relevant:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/pathways-trial

Scales of Gender-Related Distress, Mental Health
Symptoms and Physical Health measures:

a) Utrecht Gender Dysphoria Scale – Gender
Spectrum (UGDS-GS)
b) Revised Children’s Anxiety and Depression
Scale (RCADS)
c) Body Image Scale – Gender Spectrum (BISGS)
d) Parental Attitudes of Gender Expansiveness
Scale for Youth (PAGES-Y)
e) SCOFF questionnaire
f) Sexual attraction questionnaire
g) ALSPAC measure
h) Gender identity question
i) Adolescent Primary Care Traumatic Stress
Screen (APCTSS)
j) KIDSCREEN-52
k) Physical health diagnoses
Scales of Suicidal Ideation, Hospitalizations, Mood
Symptoms, Behavioural and Functional Difficulties:
a) Ask Suicide-screening Questions (ASQ)
b) Child Behaviour Checklist (CBCL)
c) Youth Self-Report (YSR)
d) Difficulties in Emotion Regulation Scale – 18
(DERS-18)
e) Hospitalisations of participants

Experiences of Therapeutic Options:
a) Rates of referral to, uptake of, and completion
of psychological therapy, occupational therapy,
speech and language therapy, clinical nursing,
youth work support, school/college support,
and non-endocrine pharmacological
treatments.
b) Number of sessions attended, delivery method
of therapeutic sessions, focus of therapeutic
work, access to psychological support outside
the CYPGS, and clinician-rated participant
engagement with non-endocrine therapeutic
work.
Cognitive Assessments
a) Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children
(WISC-V)
b) Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System (DKEFS)
c) Child and Adolescent Memory Profile
(CHAMP)
d) Memory Validity Profile (MVP)
e) Behaviour Rating Inventory of Executive
Function (BRIEF2)
Continuous Physical Measures
a) Height (cm)
b) Weight (kg)
c) BMI
d) Bone mineral density (DEXA) z score
e) Sex Hormone and Bone Health related Blood
Tests
Binary Physical Outcomes
a) Adverse events
b) Puberty staging (Tanner staging, both clinical
and self-reported)

I notice that natal sex isn’t among these

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 13:37

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:37

Are you taking the piss out of the experience of gender dysphoria?

Could you please attempt to address any of the significant questions that you've promised to answer?

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 16:32

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 09:07

LOADS!

Medicine is full of conditions for which there is no definitive diagnostic test and where the patient's history and reported symptoms are central to diagnosis.

Migraine, IBS, fibromyalgia, ME/CFS, chronic pain disorders, insomnia, tinnitus and many functional neurological disorders are obvious physical examples. Then there are ADHD, autism, depression, anxiety disorders, PTSD, OCD, bipolar disorder and many other psychiatric and neurodevelopmental conditions and so so many more.

Doctors may examine the patient or order tests to rule out other explanations, but that is quite different from having a test which proves the condition itself.

"Relying on a patient's testimony" really makes it sound much stranger than it is. Taking a clinical history — what someone experiences, when it started, how persistent it is, how it affects them, and whether it fits established diagnostic criteria — is one of the basic tools of medicine. If you decided that subjective symptoms didn't count unless they could be independently demonstrated by a blood test or scan, you really would dismantle a huge part of healthcare.

I can prove my IBS, at least I can most certainly prove the symptoms. And I have to live with it, until such time as I am diagnosed with something treatable or terminal. There are physical symptoms, it's not just a matter of saying "I feel this". We shouldn't expect doctors to be able to cure, treat, or even alleviate all conditions with drugs or surgery. At the moment, we are taking a condition with symptoms that are entirely self-reported and indistinguishable by a doctor from other mental health issues, and treating it with medical and surgical interventions with little evidence that they do any long term good and with evidence that they do physical harm.

And when parents are concerned about the harms, they are silenced and cut off. In the US there are cases of their children (under 18s) being removed by social services because the parents are trying to protect them from ideologically mandated treatments that are known to do harm. If the conversion therapy practices bill goes through without very careful and clear safeguards, this could be happening in the UK in a few years time, along with imprisonment for parents or therapists who work towards acceptance of someone's natural physical reality.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 18:07

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 09:19

Because providing hormonal treatments and removing body parts doesn't necessarily result in serious illness or loss of life.

There are many, many, many medical conditions for which we provide hormone therapies and surgical alternations of the body.

Edited

It doesn't necessarily result in serious illness or loss of life? Well, that's all right then.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 18:16

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2026 09:36

Treat psychiatric disorders with psychiatric medicine. Ie drugs that work on the brain.

Not drugs that work on other, healthy body parts.

Is that actually news to you?

Thank you! I had actually not seen that, at least not consciously. I would be very interested to hear if there is any other cognitive/psychiatric condition that this applies to.

HousePlantEmergency · 30/09/2026 18:26

The questions were obviously different 😂

Good job really.

Yes, well given I've just worked for nearly 3 hours on supporting paperwork for my one of my (work) kids, I can tell you it's more than just asking a few questions. It relies on the observations and professional opinion of others more than you'd think
.
It is EXTREMELY thorough process and tbh it'd be less work to live "in the fashion" of someone with ADHD for, I don't know... 12 months?

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 18:40

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 13:37

Could you please attempt to address any of the significant questions that you've promised to answer?

Tumbleweed.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 18:45

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 09:50

Well that's a much narrower question than your original claim. If you mean psychiatric conditions routinely treated by surgically altering an otherwise anatomically healthy body part, there aren’t many close analogues — but medicine doesn’t require a treatment to have an analogue in another condition before it can be legitimate.

An example could be treatment for PMDD/ severe PMS. This is a condition defined largely by cyclical mood and behavioural symptoms, yet one recognised treatment is hormonal suppression of normal ovarian function. GnRH agonists can suppress ovulation and ovarian hormone production, effectively inducing a reversible “chemical menopause,” specifically to relieve severe cyclical psychological/behavioural symptoms. NHS sources describe this use explicitly.

And indeed my friend has just been offered a hysterectomy for severe PMDD! Her uterus is anatomically healthy.

There are also psychiatric conditions where treatment acts on structurally healthy parts of the body — for example physiotherapy for functional neurological disorder, nutritional/enteral interventions in eating disorders, and physical interventions such as vagus-nerve stimulation or ECT in severe depression — but none of those needs to be a perfect analogy. Different conditions very obviously require different kinds of treatment.

What matters is whether a particular intervention is an effective treatment for the particular condition, what its risks and benefits are, what alternatives exist, and what the outcomes are with and without treatment.

Most of those examples are not destructive. Re your PMDD example, surgical treatment appears to be very unusual at least, and a last resort. This is quite different from recent treatments for gender dysphoria, where surgery has occurred far sooner, but more like the former regime where a transsexual was treated with conventional psychiatric therapies for years before they got anywhere near surgery.

The evidence in favour of medical and surgical interventions for gender dysphoria has repeatedly been described as poor, for example in the Cass Report and similar reports from other countries.

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 19:30

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 12:48

Absolutely not.

I am trying to get you to experience how the demands made by Genderists about how people with gender dysphoria need to be supported impact other people's sense of self as well, and this also causes distress and humiliation.

Trans people's feelngs and sense of self are not the only measure that is important.

When the language we use to name and understand ourselves is debased this is not a neutral accomodation, it redefines us in ways we may not in fact agree is how we see ourselves.

It is telling though that your first assumption was that my post was "taking the piss" . You assume I am just pretending Genderist language being applied to women distresses me.

I can tell you categorically that it absolutely does distress me.

I have the same emotional reaction - a combination of feeling unsafe, marginalised, misrepresented, powerless, and yes, angry about the powerlessness - from Genderist language being forced on to me as I do to being forced to listen to more traditional sexist language and attitudes in situations in which I do not feel able or supported to speak up.

Again, noticing the pattern of which posts elicit an immediate response and which lie unanswered.

Edited

you wrote this , are you trying to suggest that your feelings about this are the equivalent to the medical condition of gender dysphoria?

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/09/2026 19:34

StandingDeskDisco · 30/09/2026 09:16

This.
To repeat the point in less elegant language:
A man who thinks he is a woman, or wants to be a woman, or 'identifies' as a woman, has no idea what it actually means to be a woman, i.e. live in a female body. Because he has never lived in a female body, so he doesn't know what that is like.
All he has are his own ideas of what being a woman might be like, based on his perception of social stereotypes.
All he has is stereotypes of being "feminine".

Being 'feminine' is most definitely NOT the same thing as being a woman.

Exactly. I’m not sure why the people who disagree with this clear reality are so very incapable of articulating why these men are women or should be treated as such.

BackToLurk · 30/09/2026 19:55

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 19:30

you wrote this , are you trying to suggest that your feelings about this are the equivalent to the medical condition of gender dysphoria?

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me

Who are you to deny an individual’s testimony that something causes them distress? On what basis? Purely that you disagree with them?

Pingponghavoc · 30/09/2026 20:00

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 19:30

you wrote this , are you trying to suggest that your feelings about this are the equivalent to the medical condition of gender dysphoria?

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me

Distress isn't real unless its in the ICD?

The pressure trans ideology places on everyone else is very stressful - renaming women as cis women, preferred pronouns, challenging every women only space and opportunity.

The feelings are real and intense.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 20:07

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 19:30

you wrote this , are you trying to suggest that your feelings about this are the equivalent to the medical condition of gender dysphoria?

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me

Are you dismissing the very real distress that Genderist demands cause other people?

Would you tell someone facing racism that their distress doesn't count because it's not "the equivalent to the medical condition of gender dysphoria"?

Ableism? Ageism?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 20:11

Also @Lacksie , how are those big answers to big questions going?

Don't get distracted by trivial ol' me and my silly little upset at being forced into a gender identity I neither asked for nor identify as.

You focus on the big things :) We've been waiting a long time to see how your luxury beliefs work out in the real world. I mean, this must be easy for you, right? To be so sure it's the right thing?

Go on, you can do it!

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 20:14

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:56

I was discussing clinical criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis and yes "clinically significant distress" is a necessary criteria , although that is controversial.

That's interesting. "Clinically significant distress". I am pretty sure that I have met the threshold for that over my family troubles, caused in my opinion by gender identity ideology at the root. And I definitely know people in similar circumstances who have med that threshold. In my case, as just one example, I was driving on a motorway when I suddenly experienced extreme negative thoughts and I only just retained enough control to stop the car safely. I could have caused a pile-up and multiple deaths.

Instead of prescribing hormones, or suggesting the possibility of surgery, or prescribing anti-depressants, or even referring me to a gender clinic, I was pointed towards Mermaids by my GP. There are very few medical people, and very few journalists for that matter, who have any awareness of the distress of parents, and spouses, and other people close to trans people. Parents' stories are rarely heard, because they cannot speak openly for fear of their children cutting them off, and for fear of distressing their children further. So we hear one side of the distress.

Can you imagine, Lacksie, the distress of a mother whose daughter is on testosterone, is growing facial hair where none grew before, and who is risking her health? Or who has booked a bilateral mastectomy though her breasts are healthy? Can you imagine the distress of a woman whose husband suddenly starts presenting "as a woman", takes oestrogen, perhaps has genital surgery, and expects his wife to support him in all this, and claims that both of them are now lesbians? Or the gay man whose partner announces that he is a woman and wants to grow 'breasts'?

None of this diminishes any suffering of people who identify as trans. But this is a story only a small part of which has been told widely. Our sympathy is to be exclusively for the trans-identified, and to mention the distress of others, whose family has been devastated, is "transphobic"?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 20:19

There is a deep and insightful thread waiting about the medicalisation of female distress and whether the steep rise in trans-identifying young women is actually just the latest emergence of something that has been going on for a long time.

Sadly, this will not be that thread. Because some minds are too closed to see past the Trans label.

Helleofabore · 30/09/2026 20:29

I am hoping that @Lacksie can explain with detail how exactly any person of one sex can accurately describe that what they are experiencing is an experience unique to the opposite sex.

Because as I see it, this really is the crux of the matter.

How is this possible at all?

I think this is a question that is being ignored. Perhaps because the answer involves an unprovable existentialist belief based on no material reality at all. Or perhaps despite all the denials, the accurate analysis is that it is a purely personal and individual conceptualisation that cannot be based in material reality because of no ability to verify this conceptualisafion.

How does this conceptualisation get formed?

If I have missed a detailed answer, I will go back and find it. But I have checked and there is no reply.

Helleofabore · 30/09/2026 20:40

NAOMI CUNNINGHAM ON PRONOUNS AND WHY SHE NO LONGER USES INCORRECT SEX PRONOUNS

This thread, by the way, was in answer to beccajiggens posting:

"Deliberately misgendering trans people in such aggressive ways is conduct unbecoming of a barrister. Again.
@ barstandards"

(my edit to remove auto formatting, but the barstandards was a tag on twitter, intended to bring Naomi's post to the attention of the regulation board)
Naomi's answer:

https://x.com/LoudBonnet/status/2079302831215902930?s=20

" Because I am a dissenter from gender ideology, the pronouns I use are almost invariably determined by the sex, not the gender identity, of the person I am referring to.

I understand that some people think my choice in this is unkind, or rude. I might have thought that myself a few years ago.

I no longer think that, for a number of reasons.

The first is that courtesy is freely given. A "courtesy" demanded with menaces loses its quality as such, and becomes a gesture of submission to bullies.

The second is about truth. If I say "she" of a man, I am implying that he is female. Men aren't female, so I am saying something untrue.

We all tell polite lies sometimes when it doesn't matter much. I think back when I was willing to tell this one, I thought it didn't matter much.
I know better now. What I know now is that many of the men who want to be referred to by feminine pronouns also want everyone to be forced to treat them for all purposes as if they were women, to the detriment of actual women's privacy, dignity and safety.

I think it matters a lot that we should be able to say "no" to those men, and to explain in plain words why we say no (because they are men).

The third is about clarity. Even if everyone knows in theory that the man we're all referring to as "she" is a man really, referring to him as "she" is confusing.

Clarity is fundamental to my job as an advocate: I need to be able to put my arguments as clearly and vividly as possible.

The fourth and perhaps the most important is about what's known to propagandists, advertisers and psychologists as the "repetition effect." People will believe almost any lie, however obviously untrue, if you repeat it often enough.

Lies don't get much more obviously untrue than "trans women are women."

It is repeated like a mantra by trans activists and those who see themselves (or want to be seen) as "allies."

But this lie has a superpower. The superpower is pronouns.

The near-universal compliance with "preferred pronouns," even by many of those who dissent in other ways from gender ideology, means that the lie is repeated with almost every utterance about a man who says he is a woman (or a woman who says she is a man).

And it's repeated not as an assertion, but insidiously, subliminally, by the use of little grammar-words that are normally handled on autopilot and barely registered by either speaker or listener.

It's brilliant propaganda. It's especially brilliant that so many dissenters have been induced to reinforce the lie in this way.
I'm not prepared to.

end/ "

Thank you, Naomi. This is succinctly worded yet detailed.

Naomi Cunningham profile picture

Naomi Cunningham (@LoudBonnet) on X

Because I am a dissenter from gender ideology, the pronouns I use are almost invariably determined by the sex, not the gender identity, of the person I am referring to.

https://x.com/LoudBonnet/status/2079302831215902930?s=20

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2026 20:41

Helleofabore · 30/09/2026 20:29

I am hoping that @Lacksie can explain with detail how exactly any person of one sex can accurately describe that what they are experiencing is an experience unique to the opposite sex.

Because as I see it, this really is the crux of the matter.

How is this possible at all?

I think this is a question that is being ignored. Perhaps because the answer involves an unprovable existentialist belief based on no material reality at all. Or perhaps despite all the denials, the accurate analysis is that it is a purely personal and individual conceptualisation that cannot be based in material reality because of no ability to verify this conceptualisafion.

How does this conceptualisation get formed?

If I have missed a detailed answer, I will go back and find it. But I have checked and there is no reply.

Exactly. How could I, as a woman, know what it is to feel like a man?

I can’t. It’s a category error. The only thing I can connect to are cultural/societal stereotypes about what it is to be a man that I’ve imbibed second hand.

It’s like saying I feel like a panda. How could I possibly know what that feels like?

MrsOvertonsWindow · 30/09/2026 20:43

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 20:14

That's interesting. "Clinically significant distress". I am pretty sure that I have met the threshold for that over my family troubles, caused in my opinion by gender identity ideology at the root. And I definitely know people in similar circumstances who have med that threshold. In my case, as just one example, I was driving on a motorway when I suddenly experienced extreme negative thoughts and I only just retained enough control to stop the car safely. I could have caused a pile-up and multiple deaths.

Instead of prescribing hormones, or suggesting the possibility of surgery, or prescribing anti-depressants, or even referring me to a gender clinic, I was pointed towards Mermaids by my GP. There are very few medical people, and very few journalists for that matter, who have any awareness of the distress of parents, and spouses, and other people close to trans people. Parents' stories are rarely heard, because they cannot speak openly for fear of their children cutting them off, and for fear of distressing their children further. So we hear one side of the distress.

Can you imagine, Lacksie, the distress of a mother whose daughter is on testosterone, is growing facial hair where none grew before, and who is risking her health? Or who has booked a bilateral mastectomy though her breasts are healthy? Can you imagine the distress of a woman whose husband suddenly starts presenting "as a woman", takes oestrogen, perhaps has genital surgery, and expects his wife to support him in all this, and claims that both of them are now lesbians? Or the gay man whose partner announces that he is a woman and wants to grow 'breasts'?

None of this diminishes any suffering of people who identify as trans. But this is a story only a small part of which has been told widely. Our sympathy is to be exclusively for the trans-identified, and to mention the distress of others, whose family has been devastated, is "transphobic"?

What a powerful post Rapid. Thank you. Flowers

The deliberate dismissal of families is deliberate. Parental alienation runs through transactivism and queer theory as in a stick of rock.

Society knows (from all available data) that children alienated from their families do terribly, measured on all life measures. Yet society has stood by while transactivism targets even the youngest of children.
The performance of the head of the RCN today at the SP tribunal being unbothered by "eunuch gender" being applied to children by the NHS, is today's grim reminder of how the abuse of children can be facilitated by this ideology.

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 20:45

So the policy question.

whether or not we are going to agree on a particular theory about sex and gender , the practical challenge will remain- how do ordinary services and facilities operate fairly and sensibly in a society in which transgender people exist and need to go about their lives?

I do not think there is a single answer that applies to every situation. There are circumstances in which maintaining a service by birth sex may be justified. That is why I can understand the rationale of the Supreme Court judgment. What I do not accept is the enormous leap from that judgment to the proposition that every transgender person must now use facilities associated with their birth sex in every conceivable context.

That isn’t what the Court decided.

Sex-separated services exist for different reasons in different contexts: privacy, dignity, comfort, cultural or religious expectations, safety, therapeutic effectiveness, or simply longstanding social convention. A rape counselling group, hospital ward, communal changing room, public toilet and alcoholism support group are not interchangeable. The interests involved are different, and it makes little sense to pretend that the appropriate rule must therefore be identical in all of them.

There is another practical reality which is often strangely denied in these discussions: gender transition can profoundly alter somebody's appearance and the sex others perceive them to be. Of course not every trans person passes. But some plainly do. That isn’t an ideological assertion; it is observable reality. Remember the reallt grotesque reality programme There’s Something About Miriam In fhe early 2000s?

Because of that, a rigid birth-sex rule can sometimes undermine the very privacy, dignity and social expectations that sex separation is meant to protect.
A trans woman who has transitioned, lives entirely as a woman and is perceived by everybody around her as female may create considerably more surprise or disruption by walking into a men’s changing room than by quietly using the women’s. Similarly, a trans man who has developed a beard, male-pattern body hair, a deep voice and an otherwise conventionally male appearance may look extremely out of place in a women’s changing facility.

The Supreme Court itself explicitly recognised this practical problem. It observed that a trans woman who “presents fully as a woman” may feel that she would provoke more objection entering men’s facilities than women’s, and acknowledged that such trans women may in practice use female facilities without compromising other women’s privacy and dignity. The judgment also recognised the converse situation: transition may give a trans man such a masculine appearance or attributes that his presence in a particular women’s service could reasonably be considered inappropriate.

There was a case just the other day of a trans women who has been excluded from her substance misuse support group because of the new EHRC guidance. Desperate for support and frightened that she might relapse, she asked whether she could instead attend the men’s group. The answer there was also no: the service was deliberately organised around men discussing men’s experiences together, and they considered that her presence would be disruptive and uncomfortable for the rest of the group and undermine its purposes. So she is now without the advice and support she needs: how can that be right?

there are so many examples of this type of thing happening now that illustrate very clearly that telling a transgender person, “Use the service for your biological sex” does not necessarily produce a coherent outcome In practice.

The response is sometimes that there should simply be separate transgender facilities. Occasionally that may be possible and appropriate. But as a universal solution it isn’t realistic. There will often be nowhere near enough transgender people locally to sustain an entirely parallel network of toilets, changing rooms, shelters, hospital provision, swimming sessions, support groups and other services. It can also be intensely othering, and requiring somebody to enter a specially designated transgender facility may disclose private information about them every time they use an ordinary service.

Taken to its logical conclusion, blanket segregation can therefore mean that trans people are technically told they have somewhere they are permitted to go while in practice being unable to access large parts of ordinary social life.

That is why I think context and proportionality matter.

There will be circumstances in which exclusion may be reasonable and proportionate. A therapeutic group for female survivors of sexual violence, for example, may raise considerations very different from an ordinary public toilet. Communal accommodation, intimate personal care and some medical services may raise different questions again. Women’s privacy, dignity and safety are legitimate considerations and shouldn’t simply be dismissed.

I also understand that some women feel uncomfortable around a trans woman whom they perceive to be male. I have experienced that discomfort myself. At university I attended a lesbian group where the presence of somebody I perceived as male made me uncomfortable. I don’t think acknowledging that reaction makes somebody wicked or unreasonable. Feelings of discomfort are real, and in some settings they may be relevant to how a service should be organised. But if discomfort alone were enough to determine who may participate in public or social life, almost any minority could be excluded whenever somebody else objected to their presence. The relevant question has to be whether the discomfort reflects a genuine privacy, dignity, therapeutic or safety interest in that particular setting, and whether exclusion is a proportionate way of addressing it.

Most people navigate these situations through ordinary social behaviour. Most trans people don’t want to draw attention to themselves in a changing room or toilet any more than anybody else does. People who know that they are very visibly perceived as their birth sex will often make different choices from somebody who has lived for twenty years being universally perceived as the opposite sex. Some use neutral facilities where they are available. Most people, trans or otherwise, simply want to get changed, use the toilet, attend their support group or receive a service and leave again without anybody taking much notice of them.

Ultimately, I don’t think either extreme produces a workable answer.
“Gender identity always overrides sex, whatever the circumstances” ignores legitimate reasons why genuinely birth-sex sometimes matters.

But also every transgender person must now use birth-sex facilities everywhere” ignores the actual complexity of the Equality Act, the role of proportionality, the enormous variety of services involved and the practical reality of transition.

The more sensible approach, in my view, is context-specific. What is this particular service for? What privacy, dignity or safety interests are actually engaged? Would inclusion genuinely interfere with its purpose? What would exclusion mean in practice for the transgender person? Are there ways of accommodating everybody without defeating the purpose of the service?
Sometimes those considerations may justify exclusion. In many ordinary circumstances they may not.

That is the distinction I think has been badly lost since the Supreme Court judgment. A judgment establishing that facilities/ services can be restricted to birth sex where that is justified and proportionate has been converted into a social instruction to exclude trans people from everything possible!!!

To me this is beyond what i could ever imagine happening somewhere like the UK. Trans people still have to live in society. They have to go to work, swim, travel, go to hospital, recover from addiction, use toilets, change their clothes and seek support just like everybody else. A pluralistic society has to find practical ways of accommodating their dignity and participation alongside the privacy, dignity and safety of everybody else. That requires judgment and proportionality, not blanket rules in either direction

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 20:49

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 30/09/2026 20:14

That's interesting. "Clinically significant distress". I am pretty sure that I have met the threshold for that over my family troubles, caused in my opinion by gender identity ideology at the root. And I definitely know people in similar circumstances who have med that threshold. In my case, as just one example, I was driving on a motorway when I suddenly experienced extreme negative thoughts and I only just retained enough control to stop the car safely. I could have caused a pile-up and multiple deaths.

Instead of prescribing hormones, or suggesting the possibility of surgery, or prescribing anti-depressants, or even referring me to a gender clinic, I was pointed towards Mermaids by my GP. There are very few medical people, and very few journalists for that matter, who have any awareness of the distress of parents, and spouses, and other people close to trans people. Parents' stories are rarely heard, because they cannot speak openly for fear of their children cutting them off, and for fear of distressing their children further. So we hear one side of the distress.

Can you imagine, Lacksie, the distress of a mother whose daughter is on testosterone, is growing facial hair where none grew before, and who is risking her health? Or who has booked a bilateral mastectomy though her breasts are healthy? Can you imagine the distress of a woman whose husband suddenly starts presenting "as a woman", takes oestrogen, perhaps has genital surgery, and expects his wife to support him in all this, and claims that both of them are now lesbians? Or the gay man whose partner announces that he is a woman and wants to grow 'breasts'?

None of this diminishes any suffering of people who identify as trans. But this is a story only a small part of which has been told widely. Our sympathy is to be exclusively for the trans-identified, and to mention the distress of others, whose family has been devastated, is "transphobic"?

I think your distress about what you are going through with your child is very real and very valid. I would in no way shape or form underestimate or trivialise that. It can be incredibly painful for a parent to accept their child transitioning.

On the other hand, I think @FlirtsWithRhinos posts / lines of argumentation are so beyond ridiculous, callous, self-indulgent and solipsistic I can't even dignify them further with a response.

Rollingpinofdoom · 30/09/2026 20:55

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 20:49

I think your distress about what you are going through with your child is very real and very valid. I would in no way shape or form underestimate or trivialise that. It can be incredibly painful for a parent to accept their child transitioning.

On the other hand, I think @FlirtsWithRhinos posts / lines of argumentation are so beyond ridiculous, callous, self-indulgent and solipsistic I can't even dignify them further with a response.

Edited

To me this is beyond what i could ever imagine happening somewhere like the UK. Trans people still have to live in society. They have to go to work, swim, travel, go to hospital, recover from addiction, use toilets, change their clothes and seek support just like everybody else.

And they can do this whilst using facilities relevant to their sex.

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