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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

1000 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

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ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 11:36

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 30/09/2026 11:35

ADHD is diagnosed using structured questionnaires & scoring of symptoms. No such formal process is even available to diagnose being “trans”.

I've been digging trying to find the questionnaires used for diagnosis. There were some shared wrt the puberty blocker trial. Some of them were... very illuminating.

BackToLurk · 30/09/2026 11:36

I’m cautious of wandering further down the lane that takes on a detour around @Lacksie answering the pertinent questions about the relevance of diagnosis. However, what I would say about the ADHD diagnosis is a significant number of late-diagnosed women in particular had previously been diagnosed with other conditions including bipolar disorder, depression and borderline personality disorder. I suppose we can at least be thankful that the treatment for none of these is having your tits cut off.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 11:43

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:22

It doesn't need to be, I didnt have parental or any other feedback on mine as wasn't able to provide . It relied on questions to me alone. Also diagnosis of gender dysphoria , where possible, also often involves questions to caregivers . The two are very similar.

Oh hi! I also have ADHD!

I mean, it's not cis-ADHD. I haven't been diagnosed or anything. And I don't actually present with the expected symptoms of ADHD. In fact when I hear diagnosed ADHD-ers talking about having ADHD it's totally different to me.

But that's irrelevant because I know I have ADHD. It's just a thing I know to be true about myself.

So I'm super excited to share that I'm going to be the official ADHD employee rep at work! I'm going to be consulted about how best to support people with ADHD. I mean, I'm clearly the best person for this because unlike those cis-ADHDers I actually turn up on time, amirite 🤪?

And I'm really going to broaden the meaning of ADHD.

First up, I'm going to stop all those othering supports and accommodations, and instead focus on flags and badges and a joint event with the Pride team. It's gonna be great!

(Satire, obviously. Satirising the idea that male people can call themselves women and be given roles that influence how women are seen and supported even though by claiming they qualify to be women they impose a definition of woman that obscures the core reasons women need that support in the first place.)

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:45

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 11:30

She’s not answering the question, because it’s not answerable.

That’s why I think she’ll get there in the end.

This is obviously a completely different question. There's what gender incongruence is and what causes it , how it should be treated medically - which is completely separate to what we should do to accommodate people socially/ politically/ legally.

I will definitely respond to this, but would like to provide a detailed/ considered response , which I can't do just now as on the go.

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 11:46

unlike those cis-ADHDers I actually turn up on time, amirite

Oof.

Unlike those grotty ciswomen, I have none of those grotty bio inconveniences like periods, pregnancy, menopause

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 11:46

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:45

This is obviously a completely different question. There's what gender incongruence is and what causes it , how it should be treated medically - which is completely separate to what we should do to accommodate people socially/ politically/ legally.

I will definitely respond to this, but would like to provide a detailed/ considered response , which I can't do just now as on the go.

Look forward to it, Lacksie. It's great that you are engaging.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 11:52

BackToLurk · 30/09/2026 11:36

I’m cautious of wandering further down the lane that takes on a detour around @Lacksie answering the pertinent questions about the relevance of diagnosis. However, what I would say about the ADHD diagnosis is a significant number of late-diagnosed women in particular had previously been diagnosed with other conditions including bipolar disorder, depression and borderline personality disorder. I suppose we can at least be thankful that the treatment for none of these is having your tits cut off.

At this point I have no faith that Lacksie will answer any of the relevant questions asked of him/her. I can only conclude (s)he knows (s)he has no good answers to the actual practical implementations and implications of his/her luxury beliefs.

Lacksie's random rant on the Sandie Peggie thread is a significant factor in this conclusion.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 11:54

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:28

Well obviously it's not exactly the same- the questions are obviously different t for example.
But exactly tje same in the sense of depending on asking the patient questions, taking a clinical history from patient and other close persons where possible , applying clinical criteria, clinical observation. These things are exactly equivalent

What would the clinical criteria be?

Is there a requirement that the patient should have experienced distress?

If somebody has not experienced any distress, but has simply come to the conclusion that their identity is more aligned with their subjective understanding of feminine/masculine/other gender, do you think that they shouldn't be protected by the Equality Act?

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:54

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 11:52

At this point I have no faith that Lacksie will answer any of the relevant questions asked of him/her. I can only conclude (s)he knows (s)he has no good answers to the actual practical implementations and implications of his/her luxury beliefs.

Lacksie's random rant on the Sandie Peggie thread is a significant factor in this conclusion.

She / her please. I'm not male and I'm not trans.

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:56

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 11:54

What would the clinical criteria be?

Is there a requirement that the patient should have experienced distress?

If somebody has not experienced any distress, but has simply come to the conclusion that their identity is more aligned with their subjective understanding of feminine/masculine/other gender, do you think that they shouldn't be protected by the Equality Act?

I was discussing clinical criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis and yes "clinically significant distress" is a necessary criteria , although that is controversial.

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 11:59

This is for the Pathways Trial, so not quite equivalent to a general GD/GI diagnosis. But I imagine relevant:

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/pathways-trial

Scales of Gender-Related Distress, Mental Health
Symptoms and Physical Health measures:

a) Utrecht Gender Dysphoria Scale – Gender
Spectrum (UGDS-GS)
b) Revised Children’s Anxiety and Depression
Scale (RCADS)
c) Body Image Scale – Gender Spectrum (BISGS)
d) Parental Attitudes of Gender Expansiveness
Scale for Youth (PAGES-Y)
e) SCOFF questionnaire
f) Sexual attraction questionnaire
g) ALSPAC measure
h) Gender identity question
i) Adolescent Primary Care Traumatic Stress
Screen (APCTSS)
j) KIDSCREEN-52
k) Physical health diagnoses
Scales of Suicidal Ideation, Hospitalizations, Mood
Symptoms, Behavioural and Functional Difficulties:
a) Ask Suicide-screening Questions (ASQ)
b) Child Behaviour Checklist (CBCL)
c) Youth Self-Report (YSR)
d) Difficulties in Emotion Regulation Scale – 18
(DERS-18)
e) Hospitalisations of participants

Experiences of Therapeutic Options:
a) Rates of referral to, uptake of, and completion
of psychological therapy, occupational therapy,
speech and language therapy, clinical nursing,
youth work support, school/college support,
and non-endocrine pharmacological
treatments.
b) Number of sessions attended, delivery method
of therapeutic sessions, focus of therapeutic
work, access to psychological support outside
the CYPGS, and clinician-rated participant
engagement with non-endocrine therapeutic
work.
Cognitive Assessments
a) Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children
(WISC-V)
b) Delis-Kaplan Executive Function System (DKEFS)
c) Child and Adolescent Memory Profile
(CHAMP)
d) Memory Validity Profile (MVP)
e) Behaviour Rating Inventory of Executive
Function (BRIEF2)
Continuous Physical Measures
a) Height (cm)
b) Weight (kg)
c) BMI
d) Bone mineral density (DEXA) z score
e) Sex Hormone and Bone Health related Blood
Tests
Binary Physical Outcomes
a) Adverse events
b) Puberty staging (Tanner staging, both clinical
and self-reported)

KCL

PATHWAYS TRIAL | King's College London

PATHWAYS TRIAL focuses on the effects of puberty suppressing hormones on young people’s physical, social and emotional well-being.

https://www.kcl.ac.uk/research/pathways-trial

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 12:01

Utrecht GD scale. 18 questions, each scored from 'disagree completely' to 'agree completely':

I prefer to behave like my affirmed gender.GA

Every time someone treats me like my assigned sex I feel hurt.

It feels good to live as my affirmed gender.GA

I always want to be treated like my affirmed gender.GA

A life in my affirmed gender is more attractive for me than a life in my assigned sex.GA
.
I feel unhappy when I have to behave like my assigned sex.

It is uncomfortable to be sexual in my assigned sex.
.
Puberty felt like a betrayal.
.
Physical sexual development was stressful.
.
I wish I had been born as my affirmed gender.
.
The bodily functions of my assigned sex are distressing for me (i.e. erection, menstruation).

My life would be meaningless if I would have to live as my assigned sex.

I feel hopeless if I have to stay in my assigned sex.

I feel unhappy when someone misgenders me.

I feel unhappy because I have the physical characteristics of my assigned sex.

I hate my birth assigned sex.

I feel uncomfortable behaving like my assigned sex.

It would be better not to live, than to live as my assigned sex.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7430422/

Checking your browser - reCAPTCHA

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7430422/

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 12:02

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:45

This is obviously a completely different question. There's what gender incongruence is and what causes it , how it should be treated medically - which is completely separate to what we should do to accommodate people socially/ politically/ legally.

I will definitely respond to this, but would like to provide a detailed/ considered response , which I can't do just now as on the go.

I'm surprised that you haven't already given the subject consideration, but look forward to your response.

It does seem odd that despite it being 4 years since Haldane and almost 18 months since the Supreme Court Judgement ago, nobody seems to be able to suggest an alternative to the current law.

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 12:02

'I prefer to behave like my affirmed gender'

What does this even mean. What is it to 'behave like a girl'?

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 12:02

'I always want to be treated like my affirmed gender'

Again. What does it mean to be 'treated like a girl'?

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 12:06

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:56

I was discussing clinical criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis and yes "clinically significant distress" is a necessary criteria , although that is controversial.

So, again, where does this leave people who identify as trans but don't have a diagnosis of gender dysphoria?

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:07

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 12:02

I'm surprised that you haven't already given the subject consideration, but look forward to your response.

It does seem odd that despite it being 4 years since Haldane and almost 18 months since the Supreme Court Judgement ago, nobody seems to be able to suggest an alternative to the current law.

Eh? Of course I've thought about it a lot. What I mean is I want is the time to draft out a detailed/ considered post for mumsnet to answer those questions- as they aren't straightforward . And I'm currently on my phone and on the move so don't have the capacity to do that in this moment. This evening is realistic for that :).

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 12:07

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:45

This is obviously a completely different question. There's what gender incongruence is and what causes it , how it should be treated medically - which is completely separate to what we should do to accommodate people socially/ politically/ legally.

I will definitely respond to this, but would like to provide a detailed/ considered response , which I can't do just now as on the go.

I will definitely respond to this, but would like to provide a detailed/ considered response , which I can't do just now as on the go.

This is the sound of a woman peaking, in real time.

What I mean is I want is the time to draft out a detailed/ considered post for mumsnet to answer those questions- as they aren't straightforward

The Mumsnet hive mind waits with baited breath

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 12:10

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:07

Eh? Of course I've thought about it a lot. What I mean is I want is the time to draft out a detailed/ considered post for mumsnet to answer those questions- as they aren't straightforward . And I'm currently on my phone and on the move so don't have the capacity to do that in this moment. This evening is realistic for that :).

Your posting rate since you were asked the question yesterday suggests that you have had time, but perhaps you just didn't see those questions?

Anyway, I look forward to your answer.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 12:13

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 11:54

She / her please. I'm not male and I'm not trans.

Gosh it's amazing (and telling) how quickly you respond to some posts!

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me.

As a compromise, I sometimes use s/he as a neutral alternative.

I'm sure you will understand and support me in this.

iwishitwouldstartraining · 30/09/2026 12:31

ArabellaScott · 30/09/2026 12:02

'I prefer to behave like my affirmed gender'

What does this even mean. What is it to 'behave like a girl'?

I don't know, but in 1886, the head of the BMA said that women's reproductive systems might atrophy if they diverted their energy to intellectual pursuits (and I'm sure you can find some men on twitter who still believe this).

As somebody who was a teenager when the Berlin Wall was falling and apartheid was ending in South Africa, I'm not sure whether I'm more surprised at the resurgence of the far right in Europe, or the resurgence of sexism across political divides.

MyAmpleSheep · 30/09/2026 12:35

We haven’t heard from Lacksie for nearly half an hour. I hope she’s just taking time and thinking carefully and that her head hasn’t wobbled off on to the floor.

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:37

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 12:13

Gosh it's amazing (and telling) how quickly you respond to some posts!

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me.

As a compromise, I sometimes use s/he as a neutral alternative.

I'm sure you will understand and support me in this.

Are you taking the piss out of the experience of gender dysphoria?

murasaki · 30/09/2026 12:38

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/09/2026 12:13

Gosh it's amazing (and telling) how quickly you respond to some posts!

I cannot use gender specific pronouns for those who have Genderist
beliefs without feeling deep distress that I am thereby misgendering myself. This is a deeply felt genuine lived experience for me.

As a compromise, I sometimes use s/he as a neutral alternative.

I'm sure you will understand and support me in this.

Quite, and did i blink and miss the answer to my question about what Upton amd I have in common as women (given Lacksie thinks he is one) without reference to clothes etc

I think being treated as a girl in those questions probably means what Long Chu says about women.....

BackToLurk · 30/09/2026 12:48

Lacksie · 30/09/2026 12:37

Are you taking the piss out of the experience of gender dysphoria?

I don't think she's suggesting she has a diagnosis. Or is a person's right to bend law, other people's interactions with them, access to particular spaces etc dependent on a diagnosis? Feels like you can't just respect her for being her.

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