Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 4

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5549122-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-3

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

This is surely an example of favourable treatment for trans/a:Gender network?

The role of chair of a:Gender was a full time paid post, whereas seen never had a paid post?

NC: para7 of your WS
NC: You say, you were paid to be aG chair, full time. how long for?
ED: [gives election dates]
NC: So 2019-2026, first 5 full time, paid? ED Yes
NC paid by?
ED: Land Registry

NC: SEEN has never had a paid post?
ED: No
NC: Example of very different treatment?
ED: No, we started bcs trans ppl so siloed, we started in Home Office and then Cabinet Office asked us to go nationwide

From TT:

NC: Q was, you think OK for aG to post and article calling GC belief genocidal, but not acceptable for SEEN member to say sex is binary and immutable. You seemed to say, the belief isn't but the movement is.
ED: Yes that was my point, and the article's

J: We don't have the article but the shot talks of ideology and practice - doesn't that include the belief?
ED: Yes, it's a fascist -
J: You just posted without comment? You don't see anything strange here?
ED: No

NC: aG would be profoundly offended if SEEN said gender ideology was fascist, totalitarian etc
ED: do you mean GI = TWAW, or, GI = sex immutable?

Now we are on to the 'Fascist' accusations.

I wonder if ST learned from ED or the other way round? Maybe ED had been looking for a 'cause' and found ST to be a more than willing participant (experiment?)

I was all for saying yes. Then read the last para.

Uplift the pay by 250% and I'll agree to one wet Wednesday afternoon in Mid January for the believing and clapping bit.

I may have standards, but I can be bought for the right price.

What?!!!

Maybe it can start a support group with "fascist" and "trauma"

Edit: ninja'd immediately

I've been wanting to ask this for ages (and yes, I know ED is paid by Land Registry, not the Dept of Farming and Rural Affairs). Does she believe sex is not binary in eg cows, pigs, sheep, dogs, cats, horses, ferrets, rabbits, deer and poultry?

WTAF:

NC: But doesn't apply to GC?
ED: You can have GC beliefs but not be part of the GC movement.

Do we now have to carry cards to prove we are part of the communist, sorry fascist, GC movement now? Perhaps we should all wear little neckerchiefs?

NC: aG would be profoundly offended if SEEN said gender ideology was fascist, totalitarian etc
ED: do you mean GI = TWAW, or, GI = sex immutable?

What a muppet...this movement has be -clowned so many people. Embarrassing!

the GC movement

There's a movement everyone. I've always wanted to belong to a movement.

From TT:

NC: Let me put it as, aG outaged if ppl said transactivism is fascist & totalitarian
ED: They are entitled to say that.
NC: You are doing what you have criticised - the ppl doing the activism are the activists
ED: Yes

NC: But doesn't apply to GC?
ED: You can have GC beliefs but not be part of the GC movement

NC: WS para 15 you say you don't see why anyone would say "sex is binary" in workplace as it's nothing to do with work. Do you agree that SEEN is an outlier in that it's the only network that takes the SIB&A and sex matters?
ED: Only one I know of but some religious ones migh

Where do I sign to get my card? Can I have a badge too?

The judge surely cannot be taking this person seriously?!! Chucking in fascism because you don’t like that some people think sex is more important than gender-wang?!

then Cabinet Office asked us to go nationwide

A decision that i expect the Cabinet Office is now deeply regretting, with moaning, waling, and gnashing of teeth. And hoping the press doesn't notice and ask just how much money they spent paying staff to increase the tension between diferent protected groups.

Still, at the least they can say they shut the DEI groups down... after five years I think someone here said?

For you Beetle if you claim that you are intersexy - done deal.

I am intersexy too. Its like inter railing but you just sit in your bedroom and feel sexy.

It's so difficult to get a foot out of your mouth once it's lodged in there!

By the way if I get the job I've got a cruise booked for the whole of January. Every year for the next six years.

From TT;

NC: Used to be a women's network?
ED: It's now the gender network
NC: It says TWAW
ED: Yes, trans inclusive feminism, same position as us re having characteristics that are not female.

NC: So if someone actually wanted a women's network, they had to start one?
ED: You mean female not women
NC: If you want a network for ppl that share the EA PC of sex, they had to start again?
ED: No, I was AFAB even though XY chromosomes

NC: That's not my Q. If there is going to be a network for women as a biology sex class, gender network doesn't do it, need a new one
ED: If you wanted one only for ppl with exclusively female characteristics yes

Can we be careful to not discuss until TT’s bit has been posted? I keep seeing comment and scrolling back to see where I’ve missed reading them, and then they appear in a c&p from TT by myladydisdain. Thanks

No there was once a cow born with five legs so it is proof that we all exist between the binary.

If you disagree its genocide.

NC: So those items, and the section "what have we done so far" - you mention 50 events, 16 bodies/depts, policy packages.
NC: You have had an extraordinary level of access and influence across CS for years?
ED: No
NC: So the achievement list is false?
ED: No we achieved that even though nobody listens to us.

"We achieved all that even though nobody listens to us"

Genuinely, LOL! This person is a proper comedian.

😆😆😆

They achieved it all whilst having their identities erased, losing the right to exist, undergoing genocide - yet whilst being strong, resilient, kind and unquestionably brave. Good for them!

'NC: That's not my Q. If there is going to be a network for women as a biology sex class, gender network doesn't do it, need a new one
ED: If you wanted one only for ppl with exclusively female characteristics yes'

NC is NOT talking about 'female characteristics' she's talking about 'females' but ED has to keep rewording shit.

ED trying to tell Naomi what she really must mean now.......

NC: So if someone actually wanted a women's network, they had to start one?
ED: You mean female not women

Don't f**in tell me what I mean.

Interspecies