Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 3

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5548369-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-2

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

you are complaining bitterly that you no longer have the sense of freedom to help yourself to things provided for women

Well done NC!

<personal note, the judge was asking that the particular piece of evidence was not read out, not the book itself

Does Emma Dunn fulfil the same role in all of this as the senior doctor supporting Dr Upton who cried on the stand?>

Shooting the messenger, probably. Easier than having to consider seriously the issues she is raising.

And ED is mentally noting everything so she can deploy the same strategy when it's her turn. It won't be the last tears we see from the claimant's side.

One of the things that precipitated the pile on is comments about 'My Body ...', counsel tries to question the claimant about the contents of the book and the Judge directs counsel to move on because the claimant feels uncomfortable?

Really?

Just a reminder not to comment if watching. You have to wait for breaks.

These things don't need to be segregated by sex, but because of the existence of SEEN they now are.

SEEN is more powerful than the law, Supreme Court, etc etc who had nothing at all to do with EA2010 and sex meaning biological sex🙄

"Stop making everyone deal with cognitive dissonance of thought-terminating clichés by asking questions a legal professional would ask!"

NC just needs to push the right button.

Exactly. I’m sure the judge and AL and HH would rather not get into the nitty gritty of why it matters.

I read like that particular piece of evidence was the book pdf because that was what NC was asking ST to look at?

From TT:

NC - now a couple of comments about sick leave, your email of 31 july 2023, attaching the announcement that day of SEEN DEFRA, do you see that
ST - yes
NC - you said that you thought DEFRA was vaguely listening, now the recognition of DEFRA SEEN has invalidated my existence,

and you went on sick leave in protest
ST - the occupational health assessment, makes it clear that it was about my mental health, not a protest, I simply crumbled in response
NC - you had six months off work on full pay at taxpayers expense...
J - can we tone down the rhetoric

I can't trace the 'this book is terrorist' comment either and quite possibly wasn't on Amazon either, but I did see it somewhere. Hope it was just quietly removed.

I'm reading her name as Em Mad'un. I'm not even sorry.

“Freedom to help yourself to things provided for women” 🔥

J - can we tone down the rhetoric
Wow.
Though I admit it was a sharp-intake-of-breath question.

I wonder if NC can find the button that causes both the claimant and the judge to implode simultaneously?

https://www.thepinknews.com/2019/12/03/transgender-trend-children-book-anti-trans-terrorist-propaganda-my-body-is-me/

?

From TT:

the questions are becoming oppressive, no need for 'at taxpayers expense'
NC - you went on sick leave as a protest against SEEN
ST - I went on sick leave for my mental health
NC - you then had your solicitors write to DEFRA and all rights rights reserved,

<FFS again Judge!!>

Tone down the rhetoric to NC! He has decided she is here to campaign, not to be an advocate only. That suggests Judgy gossip to me.

I'm WTF ing at the judge right now!

ST - the occupational health assessment, makes it clear that it was about my mental health, not a protest, I simply crumbled in response

oh 🌹little flower...

I actually think this was a clever way of the judge saying they understand that a trans identifying man isn't a trans man and a trans identifying woman isn't a woman, but perhaps I just simply being optimistic.

I do hope so.

From TT:

it's a threat of legal proceedings
ST - it's a solicitors letter, it's not uncommon
NC - you found it nefarious that EW has mentioned or contemplated legal proceedings, it's a double standard
ST - not the same at all, I was in proceedings, she was threatening to get what she

wanted.
NC - I am reminded by EW that she has never threatened ET proceedings but did say that she was being discriminated against,
ST - I'm sure that she did, it's in the bundle
NC - if it's there, then I'm sure HH will be able to take you to it. You have said that EW, SEEN