Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

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As long as the outcome of the discussions go my way, and not yours, I welcome the discussions.

I just want to go to work and do my job

Oh, but there is simply zero evidence that this is even remotely true!

J: Analogies are not always helpful.

Unwarranted, I think, Judge - you are implying that NC's analogy wasn't helpful, whereas I think it was spot on😄

From TT:

NC: But surely you can see some women might disagree?
ST: Yes and I've said ppl should be able to express views to line manager for example. Just disagreeing about how and when.

NC: But that is exactly what SEEN is trying to do?
ST: Disagree, they are trying to just debate, to delegimise TW in those spaces, on company time.

NC: You are saying OK to say it in private but not in public?
ST: They can go and have debates lots of places, it's not OK in the workplace.

NC: Are you amember of trades union?
ST: No
NC: Do you agree the principle that ppl in workplace should be able to associate and assmemble to discuss their collective rights?
ST: Re unions yes

NC: But not women?
ST: Have been clear how objections to work policy should be handled.

Yep, he wants to sit at home on full pay stalking yammer by proxy.

J: Analogies are not always helpful.

????what? analogies are always helpful, unless the person you're talking to is braindead

From TT:

J: Can we take a short break at this point - ten minutes - thank you everyone. [BREAK]

Not particularly. It sounded to me that he knows from ALs questions that the claimant is spectacularly unable to grasp the relevance of analogies so no point wasting time arguing.

This man is so infuriating.

He says he's not a member of a trades union, so the funding for the case can't come from that source. Curiouser and curiouser.

Nah. I have learned to my cost that some people get tied up in the irrelevant differences between the situations are are quite unwilling to use even a good analogy for reasoning. [ETA well perhaps we're not disagreeing really, but at least, if you encounter such a person the analogy is not useful for getting them to understand you!]

I'd automatically assumed he was in a Union given how much they'd fawn at him.

Women, not on work time and only to your manager

ST himself though, 6 months sick leave, possible access to the back ends of systems, recording everyone's likes on posts, in all groups even ones that do not in any way remotely concern you and must never ever be faced with any opinions that do not comply.

It really has to be seen to be believed.

NC: Are you saying it's not possible to have long hair and wear a dress and be a man?
ST: Yes

If this is accurately reported, this seems to be a very regressive position to take.

Imagine if his career hadn't stagnated and he'd ended up being someone's line manager...

I worry that the judge, rather than expressing incredulity, will feel sympathy for the C for suffering from their menopause symptoms. 🙄

NC didn't ask if he had ever been a member of a union.

Can I just say YUK! to all his replies about breastfeeding and menopause?

True, but he said he isn't now, and it'd be odd to quit before doing all of this.

ST: But ppl don't talk about astrology in the workplace!

Wanna bet?!

ST is an HEO which is a managerial role and can be a second line manager.

NC: But not women?
ST: Have been clear how objections to work policy should be handled. [ooh, bit mansplainy]

Explain to me again, ST, why are you not the head of DEFRA?

Oh dear!

See post here 15:21