Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 2

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5546841-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-follow-on-from-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

I will also note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

Settles down and turns volume up to 11.

I was also going to make the point about the q word and the n word. I still have a visceral reaction to hearing both those words.

It’s the claimant, ST, asserting the SS is evidence of bias. AL for the RDEFRA/RPA is taking ST, the Judge and Panel, to examples AL believes illustrates his clients were not biased.

ST is the first witness, HH will probably pick out other examples when cross examining DEFRA/RPA witnesses.

Ultimately it is up to AL to decide how best to represent his clients.

I'm not in the slightest bit jealous of those watching live!

I have availability to c&p this afternoon if needed, just shout.

Is she on yet? <fans self>

Actually, you can have it both ways: it's common for groups to use within the community terms that are used against them from outside.
'Dykes to Watch Out for' by Alison Bechdel, the n word, 'queer' - there are lots of examples.

An Irish music group called' Paddy Goes to Holyhead' made me smile, but I didn't smile when English people called me a 'stupid Paddy'.

Context and intention matter.

thanks, I'm ok for now, but will shout if I need to

Quite, perfectly put.

It's context dependent.

In 2019, it very much was a slur and used to diminish women.

We've claimed it for ourselves now and the acronym can be used either as a slur, or as an ironic term of kinship.

A bit like why some demographic groups use the N-word, but if I did it would be horrifically racist.

People with emotional intelligence can discern the difference. Others, however, prefer to sit on a horse of righteous indignation making judgements thinking they are intelligent.

Also means "Tired of Explaining Reality to Fuckwits".

Apparently you can - Tinkerbell wants everything every which way and you presumably support his delusions.

Taking back language is exactly what we are here to do. Feminism doesn’t include men with the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Thanks (but no thanks) to distractors for reminding us that this afternoon is going to be fabulous and will merit our full attention.

Bless you TT for tremendous work so far, including during last week's heatwave.

Me either @Boiledbeetle

While we're waiting what is the general opinion on the job AL did?

My personal opinion is that he did just enough to show the respondents bent over backwards followed procedure to ensure that the Claimant was not subjected to harrassment.

I wonder if NC is having another go about the pronoun issue

He got over arguing with the claimant in spite of outrageous claims the claimant was making.

I hope so @ItsAllGoingToBeFine

we begin!

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I'd love to have had online access! From TT it seems that Operation Let Them Speak was in force and ST was such an effusive witness that AL didn't need to work overtime to get helpful answers

Woohoo NC has brought My body is me. 😅

Oh yes!

Are you really this dumb? I don't think so. I think you must be acting stupid because you think it helps you somehow.

Let me explain.

One way people who are attacked and slurred is to take the words of abuse and turn them into words of pride and power.

Witch
Bitch
Slut
Harridan
Virago
TERF

All words used to demean and control women that women now bear with pride.

This does not, of course, mean those who still use those words to silence, control and demean have license to do do, any more than communities who use other words of hate directed at them ironically between them are giving license to their haters to continue.

Because we are not dumb, and so we understand the difference.

Popcorn 🍿 this is going to be beautiful!

The book is lovely.

Crumbs.