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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60

1000 replies

nauticant · 16/12/2025 22:37

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.
Following handing down of the judgment on 8 December 2025, on 11 December 2025, it was announced by Sandie Peggie and her legal team that they would be pursuing an appeal.

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6.

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September 2025 to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025
Thread 57: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5457132-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-57 9 December 2025 to 11 December 2025
Thread 58: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5458443-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-58 11 December 2025 to 12 December 2025
Thread 59: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5459115-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-following-employment-tribunal-judgment-thread-59 12 December 2025 to 17 December 2025

OP posts:
Thread gallery
38
Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/12/2025 19:50

Coffeeandcataddict · 22/12/2025 19:30

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/equality-and-diversity-guidance/lgbtplus-equality-in-medicine/policy-position-on-the-rights-of-transgender-and-non-binary-people-in-healthcare-settings

It gets worse. The BMA are contradicting the Supreme Court as well. They are backing trans woman doctors being allowed to use female changing rooms and for trans gender woman patients being allowed in women’s wards.
When is it going to end?

tom dolphin chair of the BMA is an LGBTQ+ activist and full on TWAW

www.bma.org.uk/about-us/about-the-bma/how-we-work/leadership-at-the-bma

1984Now · 22/12/2025 19:51

Theeyeballsinthesky · 22/12/2025 19:50

tom dolphin chair of the BMA is an LGBTQ+ activist and full on TWAW

www.bma.org.uk/about-us/about-the-bma/how-we-work/leadership-at-the-bma

Well of course he/she/they is.

unwashedanddazed · 22/12/2025 20:50

MrsOvertonsWindow · 22/12/2025 18:58

This is interesting given the discussions about how difficult it is to challenge the behaviour of judges - no matter how awful their conduct is. The Times are reporting that 3 separate women have complained about the Judicial Conduct Investigations Office ‘unlawfully’ and ‘unreasonably’ failing to address their complaints about ET judge Philip Lancaster

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/complaint-alleged-bullying-judge-8dhn0j5s9

Archive link: https://archive.ph/9aTWp

He sounds absolutely awful. Pig of a man
I might be naive but I hope the growing trend of remote viewing of ETs might put a stop to this outrageous behaviour.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 22/12/2025 21:08

Coffeeandcataddict · 22/12/2025 19:30

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/equality-and-diversity-guidance/lgbtplus-equality-in-medicine/policy-position-on-the-rights-of-transgender-and-non-binary-people-in-healthcare-settings

It gets worse. The BMA are contradicting the Supreme Court as well. They are backing trans woman doctors being allowed to use female changing rooms and for trans gender woman patients being allowed in women’s wards.
When is it going to end?

That email communication of Christmas Day 2023 needs retrieving in the next 2 days before it is plausibly 'lost' forever.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 23/12/2025 10:45

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 18/12/2025 21:36

Could the "some people" be the gaggle of NHS Fife witnesses that, under oath, went out of their way to pretend they hadn't noticed Upton was trans, let alone a man?

Aye I suppose so, but the judge would have done well to clock that not a single one of them managed to not mis gender Upton. Some of them did it multiple times.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 23/12/2025 12:50

Scottish Government
NHS Fife employment tribunal queries: FOI Review
Published
23 December 2025
https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202500482778/

I havent read it yet, found while searching for something else, but posting link as may be of interest

NHS Fife employment tribunal queries: FOI Review

Information request and response under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202500482778/

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 23/12/2025 15:50

NebulousSupportPostcard · 22/12/2025 21:08

That email communication of Christmas Day 2023 needs retrieving in the next 2 days before it is plausibly 'lost' forever.

This.

Is anyone here on twitter or able to contact sex matters about this?

NebulousSupportPostcard · 23/12/2025 16:44

AreYouSureAskedNaomi · 23/12/2025 15:50

This.

Is anyone here on twitter or able to contact sex matters about this?

Would they welcome contact from a random mumsnetter, because if so I could add it to a list of bullet points around possible ET panel member, possible issues in DU's work timeline, possible additional 'plaster room in socks' issues that I have put together. Basically a brief set of issues that may vaguely possibly be relevant in the event of appeal or (in extremis) a repeat ET-hearing. But so far I have been far too embarassed to even think too long about sending it to anyone, and I wouldn't discuss the most farfetched of the thoughts on here because it wouldn't be appropriate or fair to those involved.

Part of me thinks that nothing I could ever do or say could be as ridiculous as what has happened so far - and there may be a tiny nugget of relevance in the odd thing on the list.

Mostly I am thinking no, dont waste their time, they need and deserve a break from random nutters commenting on the case.

As a related aside, if @anyolddinosaur and anyone else involved in the Victoria Planning Documents/Dr Upton's treasure map discussions from Feb July is still around there is a bit more I would like to say on here about that.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 23/12/2025 16:53

NebulousSupportPostcard · 23/12/2025 16:44

Would they welcome contact from a random mumsnetter, because if so I could add it to a list of bullet points around possible ET panel member, possible issues in DU's work timeline, possible additional 'plaster room in socks' issues that I have put together. Basically a brief set of issues that may vaguely possibly be relevant in the event of appeal or (in extremis) a repeat ET-hearing. But so far I have been far too embarassed to even think too long about sending it to anyone, and I wouldn't discuss the most farfetched of the thoughts on here because it wouldn't be appropriate or fair to those involved.

Part of me thinks that nothing I could ever do or say could be as ridiculous as what has happened so far - and there may be a tiny nugget of relevance in the odd thing on the list.

Mostly I am thinking no, dont waste their time, they need and deserve a break from random nutters commenting on the case.

As a related aside, if @anyolddinosaur and anyone else involved in the Victoria Planning Documents/Dr Upton's treasure map discussions from Feb July is still around there is a bit more I would like to say on here about that.

Am about to DM you Nebulous…

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 17:07

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 23/12/2025 10:45

Aye I suppose so, but the judge would have done well to clock that not a single one of them managed to not mis gender Upton. Some of them did it multiple times.

Did the judge ever mis-gender Upton?
That would be hilarious.

Peregrina · 23/12/2025 17:44

Did the judge ever mis-gender Upton?

I was pretty sure he did, but I haven't got the stamin to go back through the Tribunal Tweets to find out.

Kate Searle most definitely did, despite being 100% convinced that Upton was female.

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 23/12/2025 17:46

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 17:07

Did the judge ever mis-gender Upton?
That would be hilarious.

Edited

I can't remember and I'd need to go through all of the TT substacks to find out but I have a niggle in my head that tells me he did.

And if I'm remembering correctly the judge also called Isla Bumba Isla Bryson as well, which seems like a particularly zesty Freudian slip given that he has ruled that SPs reference to that trans woman in prison was likely a reference to Bryson.

WearyAuldWumman · 23/12/2025 17:51

Bloody hell. Farcical.

weegielass · 23/12/2025 17:54

IANAL but I wonder if making amendments weakens any appeal? As in “it’s not a problem anymore” sort of defence?

spannasaurus · 23/12/2025 17:58

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 23/12/2025 17:46

I can't remember and I'd need to go through all of the TT substacks to find out but I have a niggle in my head that tells me he did.

And if I'm remembering correctly the judge also called Isla Bumba Isla Bryson as well, which seems like a particularly zesty Freudian slip given that he has ruled that SPs reference to that trans woman in prison was likely a reference to Bryson.

I think it might have been Jane Russell who called Bumba Bryson

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 23/12/2025 18:05

spannasaurus · 23/12/2025 17:58

I think it might have been Jane Russell who called Bumba Bryson

Ah I think you're right. Kemp really let JR get away with murder.

Justme56 · 23/12/2025 18:21

The amendments (v3)

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60
SionnachRuadh · 23/12/2025 18:42

Any press officer will tell you never to make an announcement on a Friday afternoon, because it always makes you look sleekit and provokes journalists to ask what you're trying to hide.

Slipping out an announcement just before Christmas... well now.

murasaki · 23/12/2025 18:46

Wow. I thought they weren't allowed to amend these bits as they didn't fit the amendment rules, and they'd be brought up by BC et al in the appeal?

murasaki · 23/12/2025 18:48

Edited due to inability to type with a plaster on my thumb.

Boiledbeetle · 23/12/2025 18:50

Justme56 · 23/12/2025 18:21

The amendments (v3)

Very sneaky removal of Ashers at 793!

grrr MNHQ sort your images out!

you'll need to click on it.

Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton, following Employment Tribunal judgment - thread #60
Poms · 23/12/2025 18:52

Is that even allowed? From what I have read so far, substantial mistakes etc. are to be dealt with at appeal

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 23/12/2025 18:56

I think these amendments are an attempt to head off an appeal.

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