NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #57

[nauticant]

Judgment was handed down on 8 December 2025:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6936ce28a6fc97b81e57436a/S_Peggie_v_Fife_Health_Board__Dr_Upton.pdf

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to:
[email protected]

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 3 September to 1 October 2025
Thread 54: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5418690-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-54 28 September 2025 to 21 November 2025
Thread 55: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55 19 November 2025 to 8 December 2025
Thread 56: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5456749-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-56 8 December 2025 to 9 December 2025

Sorry to be dense, but who has called the press conference?

Are you able to give any more details?

For example, when citing case law in court the lawyer will summarise the judgment and reproduce quotes But won’t include all the case in the bundle.

Pedantic point, but is this definitely true? I assumed that the "authorities bundle" that was referred to did actually include all the case law. (Not disagreeing, genuinely curious.)

That's odd, I wonder if that's a different Sandy Kemp. As far as I can see his practice is and always has been in employment law with a sprinkling of commercial litigation.

When he was appointed partner in 2013 a summary of his career focussed on experience in the oil and gas industry including HSE prosecutions. He seems to act largely for the employer rather than the employee side.

But in that case why does he think there are single sex spaces in the first place? If he's judging this trial some cursory background reading might be in order?

Where will we be able to watch or listen to the press conference?

Called by whom? That's the same time as SP's. Is this a joint press conference with her legal team? I have to say that seems highly unlikely.

I'm assuming that, as a privileged man, he's literally never needed to think about it before.

My own DH is a good, considerate, respectful man, but we had some very testy conversations early on in my terfery, because his instinctive 'be kind, where else can TIMs go they're not safe in the men's' simply didn't understand the female POV. Now he does, of course.

The authorities bundle contains decisions from other relevant cases, but usually only the essential passages rather than the whole judgement. After all, the court isn't interested in the details of who did what to whom and which witnesses were believed in the cited cases. They are only interested in the legal findings that may affect their judgement.

It may also include extracts from relevant legislation or published guidance.

.....because his instinctive 'be kind, where else can TIMs go they're not safe in the men's' ......

And where then are the cases of TiM's going to ETs claiming constructive dismissal because there is no loo for them because they have been assaulted in the Gents?

BTW see what I did with the quotation.

All I know is that there's to be a 3pm press conference with SP and some of her legal team.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/25688772.sandie-peggie-latest-nhs-fife-payments-lawyers-revealed/

I am a subcriber but this isnt a share token for some reason. Archive link below.

All this money spaffed and we got big Sond saying ask your manager and they'll stick you in a broom cupboard - https://archive.ph/tj2lc

It can be revealed that a total of 19 payments for ‘court dues’ have been made to the Essex Court Chambers, where Jane Russell KC – NHS Fife’s barrister – works.

Ms Russell’s team were first paid on behalf of the health board in December 2024 ahead of the tribunal’s commencement in February.

In just ‘court dues’ and ‘agent fees’, £219,177.79 has been paid to the law firm between December 2024 and November 18, 2025.

It takes the total legal fees accumulated by the health board to £402,390.29, which includes court, preparation and travel costs to Ms Russell and almost £170,000 to the Central Legal Office (CLO), which also represents the health board.

I admit that - initially - I thought "Oh...TW have to be able to use women's toilet facilities while they're in the process of transitioning."

Then the Dolatowski attempted rape took place only about 10 miles from where I live and I realised how idiotic I had been. (I know - it shouldn't have taken that to give me a wake-up call.)

The Herald’s FOI also revealed that more than £5,000 was paid to a separate counsel – Aileen McColgan KC of the 11KBW firm - in the early months of the case before the health board went ahead with Ms Russell.

Didnt like the first answer

It can be revealed that a total of 19 payments for ‘court dues’ have been made to the Essex Court Chambers, where Jane Russell KC – NHS Fife’s barrister – works.

Ms Russell’s team were first paid on behalf of the health board in December 2024 ahead of the tribunal’s commencement in February.

In just ‘court dues’ and ‘agent fees’, £219,177.79 has been paid to Essex Court Chambers December 2024 and November 18, 2025.

It takes the total legal fees accumulated by the health board to £402,390.29, which includes court, preparation and travel costs to Ms Russell and almost £170,000 to the Central Legal Office (CLO), which also represents the health board.

I want to thank everyone who has kept going on this thread and helped us understand the judgment. I particularly want to thank @prh47bridge and to point out that posters keep arguing with her as if it’s her fault that the legal system works the way it does. Please remember she’s just explaining, not endorsing it! 💐 for your patience!

It's depressing, isn't it, that even many of the 'good guys' don't spend the time to think about the perspective or reality of half the population. I have the same issue with my DH. And he has daughters.

Although there are men who bother - the likes of Peter Daly or Dennis Noel Kavanagh or Mr Menno. I'm not going to lie, I've been disappointed in DH on this issue (even though he's a sex realist). Just the failure to see woman as fully human and think about it much. And he has daughters. I think it's too convenient for them not to think about it. Hence the silence on Afghanistan. It's very worrying.

Frankly I think the inability to consider the female perspective is a sign of low intelligence given some men clearly can.

Grr. Back in the days when journalists cut their teeth on court reporting for local papers they knew the difference between solicitors and barristers. Barristers are self- employed and group together working out of 'chambers'. Solicitors work in firms.

<takes off pedant's hat>

I think prh47 is a man but I don’t have any sources or citations for that fact :)

apologies if wrong!

I thought @prh47bridge was a man too....

There's been a misgendering!

I most heartily apologise if I’ve misgendered you, and for the sad feels and oppression I’ve caused by doing so.

It’s sad times…

Anecdotal of course, but it might be an interesting exercise if women asked the men in their lives what their reaction (and to a lesser extent that of other men) is to a man in women's clothes in the toilet.

I've asked a few of mine and the general consensus is eyes down and get on with it, just like with any other man. It's not something they seem to encounter all that often (maybe because the TIMs are using the women's or the disabled) and if they do, they tend to use the cubicle rather than hitching their dress up at the urinal.

ETA: I think some of the men on this board, maybe Sinner Boy and ROGC etc have more or less said the same.

Bridge is a man he told us many threads ago 😁

Now I have a fantasy about pretending to be a man with my next namechange and seeing whether it makes any difference. (Just once, I chose a name that looks obviously male, for my posts on a financial forum. OMG the difference it made - especially in the tone other posters took when they wanted to suggest I'd got something wrong. You see it from the outside, but somehow it was much, much more shocking to see it when the subtly different language is directed at you.)