Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

[ickky]

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Anyone interested?

I can but dream that the audio will be a bit better today.

This one?

Absolutely right, and I think that's why many of us watching remotely were appalled/crying with Maria during her evidence in chief.

I think they have to do this in court because most of the watching world hasn't thought about the issues at all. And then our mission, if we choose to take it, is to say exactly what you have just said as a follow up on home ground.

I don't know how things will go with the Leonardo Uk witness but, having opened the Sandie Peggie case with the painful justification of why she needed a SSS to change in, her counsel then treated the world to Dr Upton's 'justification' in a parallel conversation that the world also needed to hear.

NC SP mentioned her bad history with men. You didn't know.
DU No. Not used to discussing that with colleagues. I'm now aware of some details and sorry to hear about it and must be difficult for her to carry that with her.
NC SP gave evidence of repeated sexual assault as young woman by GP.
DU Not aware. Am now, as you have just told me.
NC Given trauma, is a w entitled to want spaces she undresses in to exclude males.
DU TW not males. Someone's trauma doesn't justify bad behaviour towards colleagues or to put restrictions on rights of others to access space.

And then NC hammered the issue home with every other of the R's witnesses. It shouldn't be necessary, but when it is forcefully laid out in public, it puts the exposure and shame right back where it belongs on the other party's shoulders. Hopefully on the front page of the news too.

I’m in!

WFTCHTJ

I have a black screen, mind you.

The black screen is the clerk's window, maximised.

Ah, right. 👍🏻

Ready for pasting duties!

Thank you, @MyrtleLion . It's vital work.

I am now back to WFTCHTJ

I'm in.

The sound is still awful.

I find the sound is less awful with ear buds

While we're waiting, I'll repost the case outline and abbreviations from Tribunal Teeets.

All posts marked From TT are me pasting from their account. I keep my own comments separate and rare while there is live tweeting.

From TT

Maria Kelly is employed by Leonardo UK. She alleges harassment, and direct and indirect discrimination. Leonardo, a leading aerospace company, has a policy permitting employees to use toilets in accord with their gender identity.

Abbreviations

C or MK – Maria Kelly, claimant
NC – Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C / MK
KW – Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C / MK
R or L – Leonardo UK, respondent
ST – Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R / L
J – Employment Judge Michelle Sutherland
P – panel member
GC – gender critical
GI – gender identity
SST – single sex toilets
SSS – single sex spaces
EA or EQA – Equality Act 2010
SC – Supreme Court
JCC – joint consultative committee at Leonardo

Tbf, it's nice hearing ST's Scottish accent in Scotland (if she has said something heinous by the time I hit send then apologies for the distraction!)

I missed all of yesterday, bloody flu. Just caught up now.

Are we placing bets for how many threads this ET will run for?

Better view of NC this morning.

Full coverage of the case can be found here:

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

I'm still WFTCHTJ

From TT

J Any comments. re instructions overnight?
[difficult to hear sound]
[they are talking about floors on the Edinburgh site. We have all the data we have, says ST, re site and who would be on site when]
J Re percentage of workers on site
J Parties able to agree if figs given

J yesterday representative?
NC Phase 1 more dominated than phase 2
J Est numbers of ppl on phase 2 first floor?
ST No
ST [to MK] JCC meeting June 24 - second meeting. You took view to start grievance process, started in June with email to Jill Nairn copied to Robin Collins

ST your LM and to his LM Ian {?] Higginbottom [and one other]
ST [to bundle] Email to Jill Nairn JN - your formal grievance. In line with policy you have unsuccessfully raised matter with LM already. In line with policy?
MK yes
ST Then bullet points. Starts with you asking RC

I've had to mute it, I'm actually really distressed at what they are putting MK through. I've worked in environments where I'm the only woman and had to fight to get the men to stop using the ladies loos - not because they were trans identified but because I was the first woman in the building so they'd got into the habit of using any loo that was nearest

log back out and in again as there dont seem to be general problems

From TT

re company policy re use of toilets colleagues and visitors. You say on 27 May 24 following emails to JN and Rachel R you got last email (you assumed) from RR. You felt you'd reached the end of enquiry re use of toilets based on self id.
ST You said 14 months to establish policy.

There’s one person in the lobby.