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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

1000 replies

ickky · 25/09/2025 16:30

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

If you want to observe send an email to

[email protected]

Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

Ask for the link and pin to observe.

State you are a member of the public and give your full name and the email address you will use to access the tribunal.

Anyone interested?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
40
NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:18

ST (paraphrased) IF YOU WANTED A WOMAN TO BE PRESENT AT YOUR GRIEVANCE YOU COULD HAVE BROUGHT YOUR OWN

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 02/10/2025 10:18

‘You didn’t take a female colleague with you to the meeting’ 🙄

Let’s all just pack up and go home, shall we??

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:19

From TT

Is that from RC to RR. And this bullet ;point?
MK yes, these are qs I was asking over months.
ST Grievance was conducted by Andrew Litton. Ian Pawley also present [names spelling may not be accurate]
ST Andrew Letton, grievance hearing manager, IP note taker - taking notes and providing HR guidance?
ML Y
And you choose to take [another man] into meeting.
MK y

Boiledbeetle · 02/10/2025 10:20

Oooh we can actually see Naomi's whole head today!

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:20

From TT

MK [missed]
ST those conducting grievance procedure. AL conducting, Would you have thought to ask for f employee.
ML Hadn't;'t occurred to me. First time I had done this.
ST It was acknowledged by L that men involved in first stage and a senior woman involved at later stage?

Scout2016 · 02/10/2025 10:21

This is so frustrating. They aren't arging they weren't allowing men in the toilets. They aren't arguing that that wasn't policy.
They are quibbling how upset she really was by their illegal actions.

Like with Sandie - you objected to our breaking the law for the wrong reasons, so screw you.

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:21

From TT

MK Yes
ST Minutes were circulated and agreed until you content with them.
MK Yes
ST You tracked changes and made comments on minutes
MK Y
ST back and forth with Ian Pawley? and your comments inc on final minutes and they reflected your consent?
MK yes

Datun · 02/10/2025 10:21

Placemarking

NotNatacha · 02/10/2025 10:22

My picture is slightly sharper today, too, at least my view of D's face. This is not a good thing, though, should today's questions distress her.

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:23

Datun · 02/10/2025 10:21

Placemarking

You can "watch" the thread then go.to.your watchlist and it will take you to your place.
Or you can bookmark a post and it will take you back to the post.

No need to make a post.

ThatPithySheep · 02/10/2025 10:23
Music Video Dancing GIF

The Bananarama defence again - it wasn't that they were breaking the law it's that she didn't complain in the right way

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:24

From TT

ST [reads] AL read your grievance and minutes and would be person to due process and provide decision on grievance. And Al provided comment on later stage of grievance and you were told had right to appeal?
MK Yes to all
ST that was done and grievance ultimately not upheld
MK yes

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:25

From TT

ST [to meeting] you were asked to expand on your concerns. Highlighted cos of employee from Luton visiting Edinburgh. Employee was TW and you were approached by concerned f colleagues. Sometime in 2019?
MK yes to all, but I didn't check the date
ST You said you put forward idea of unisex cubicles to inc basin. Fully enclosed.
MK yes

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:27

From TT

ST you said these were different from Luton toilets which had communal handbasin areas.
MK Yes
ST You ended by saying policy re toilets is harassment under regs and also length of time L took to answer qs and no consultation. Minutes accurate, that policy amounts to harassment.
MK yes

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:27

Andrew Letton (Grievance Manager) Vice President People Shared Services, Leonardo UK

Bit shy today, but here he is looking pleased with himself before he removed his image from Linkedin for the tribunal.

Scout2016 · 02/10/2025 10:27

I feel like reading out Maria's well written, well considered and well informed emails and efforts to sort this out could backfire.
Suggested legal alternatives to their illegal current situation.
Where is this headed?

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:28

From TT

ST You had suggested fully enc unisex toilets
MK We discussed various options.
ST Correspondence following mtg but before outcome. Email from Ian Pawley who had taken minutes, July 24. He attaches final draft.
MK yes
ST He inc the points you were making between unisex and other toilets

mateysmum · 02/10/2025 10:29

I'm wondering what is the defence's punchline. Are they trying to suggest that MK didn't follow procedure or was unreasonable in you know, asking her employer to comply with the law? Are we heading into Bananarama territory?

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:30

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MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:30

TT

MK agrees
ST IP says have spoken to {?} UK and taken advice. Did you know who they were
MK [missed]
ST IP says still investigating toilet provision in Edinburgh, for Phases 1 and 2. Companies advice from ?Make UK? and the discussion you had with IP etc. Did you understand L was considering various solutions, including changes in Edin site?

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:32

I've listened to the Bananarama song so many times that the Doodooodooodooodoodoo bit starts to autoplay in my head over any suspect dialogue from ST

MyrtleLion · 02/10/2025 10:32

From TT

MK Yes.
ST Grievance outcome letter. Concludes not upheld but will offer employee outcome solution. Did you think that was re toilet facilities.
MK agrees
ST was that inc in grievance outcome. [reads c toilet facilities could be amended to single occupancy/universal. Agreed is poss, and toilets now available for any employee - privacy, etc provided]

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 02/10/2025 10:33

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:27

Andrew Letton (Grievance Manager) Vice President People Shared Services, Leonardo UK

Bit shy today, but here he is looking pleased with himself before he removed his image from Linkedin for the tribunal.

Edited

Has he indeed?

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 02/10/2025 10:34

ThatPithySheep · 02/10/2025 10:15

I've had to mute it, I'm actually really distressed at what they are putting MK through. I've worked in environments where I'm the only woman and had to fight to get the men to stop using the ladies loos - not because they were trans identified but because I was the first woman in the building so they'd got into the habit of using any loo that was nearest

When I worked for a popular British budget broadband provider, all toilets on odd floors were male and only one toilet on every even floor number was female.

This is where I experienced sexual harassment from a TiM.

I worked on an odd numbered floor, pregnant, severe HG that brought on bladder injury from the abdominal cramping, and as such, incontinence.

Was told I couldn't work on an even numbered floor as our department was only on the odd numbered floor.

The way to access each floor was to go up and down 2 flights of semi stairs, you know those that change direction half way up, or wait for the slow and doddery lift, which I often had to do due to PGP.

So once I'd made it to a ladies toilet I had to spend a lot of time there, to make sure I'd got it all up, got myself cleaned up and dried off, and could make it back to my desk before the next bout hit.

It's in these toilets where I spent a lot of my time, and where I was repeatedly assaulted and harassed by a TiM that my workplace refused to confront incase they outed him even though it was so obvious, gaslit that masturbation and video calls weren't happening in the cubicle next to me, and there could not be ejaculate in the bathrooms as only women use them. Then penalised for discrimination and drawn over hot coals about my lack of inclusivity.

The TiM worked in the same department, so had to make the same journey I did to use the toilet despite there being 2 perfectly adequate male bathrooms a shorter distance from his desk.

This woman is so brave for speaking up, braver than I who just left the company instead of taking it further.

Women shouldn't have to say more than no. No should be enough.

NebulousSupportPostcard · 02/10/2025 10:35

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