Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal 29th September 10am

[ickky]

Hello

Don't know much about this case other than Naomi Cunningham is representing Ms Kelly.

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Subject line

Ms BM Kelly v Leonardo UK Limited Employment Tribunal – hearing Case number: 8001497/2024

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SHE MADE NO NOTES

#Sadtimes

MK: What, sorry, for an incident that hadn't yet occured?

Ah. Time running backwards and defying the laws of physics, as in the Sandie Peggie Tribunal.

No idea what this refers to.

From TT

MK I didnt know what the policy was. I didnt see him using the loos and assumed he wasnt. Was only when saw B using them - I raised in 3 days [missed]
ST Was there anyone else?
MK I think C had been in the toilet but didnt know but had personally seen B in toilet

MK I contacted my boss in March 23 I think. A day or so before cos had to think what to say
ST So was related to meeting B in toilet?
Yes
ST Look at GCCs mtgs u attended in April -June 24. List of those present and reasons for attending. JN was present from HR. U repped workers

A Father Ted episode where a young male singer turns up at Ted's, and all the island women find out, swarm the house and he describes it as a tide of jam but made out of old ladies.

Obsessive fandom, basically.

Also involves a jumper baked into a cake...

From TT

ST Also the comms person and Unite rep and JCC facilitator and a guest
MK Yes
ST Re toilet facilities, and JCC issues..u can see where u brought up toilets
MK Yes as my indiv concern
ST Why was this appropriate
MK I thought other staff members shld know as policy was not

it's a Fr Ted reference.

Surely, individuals are allowed to bring issues of their own to meetings, because they are also staff members, along with the others they represent?

From TT

documented. I thought it would be relevent to a new member of staff.
ST U knew this wld be cascaded down
Yes, I knew wldnt stay secret
ST Was in minuted re toilet usage by gender [reads minutes and not knowing the policy]
MK The wording isnt mine. I had asked since Spring 23 and that I didnt know the policy and put forward a resolution

And it's their duty to inform their representees of current issues and policy, surely. She would have been remiss in not doing so.

Don't be silly. Surely you must see Maria is just an annoying busy body looking for a fight who thinks only of herself and no one else, especially the poor transwomen she is upsetting by her outrageous question asking.

Also as well as on her own behalf, she knew there was a reluctance for other staff to speak freely about these issues. She represents them too.

From TT

ST It says MK says shld be SS and ppl dont know what the policy was
MK I was unhappy w the policy and that no-one knew. women shld have been told of it as they were concerned abot M in the toilet
ST [reading out MK's concerns] Including need for clearly marked toilets

yes, and it's not MK's fault if a third party minutes the whole meeting in a particular style that doesn't capture every nuance

From TT

MK This summarises well
ST [reads re not being able to say anything]
MK Yes is accurate
ST Is this related to these 3 women?
MK Yes, also 4-5 close friends. Also men expressing concern although they've never had W in their toilets afaik

IANAL so what do I know, but yet again the 'defence' of the company seems to be an attack on the veracity of the complainant [MK is the complainant isn't she?]

The toilets weren't that far, she says she first brought the issue up in 2023, she raised issues at meetings that were just about her, she actually knew what the company policy was but continued to claim she didn't....

Bless the R counsel's heart. She was careful to say she didn't want to upset MK. She has barely managed to fluster her.

Will we be seeing an Equality Impact Assessment, I wonder?

Do you remember the LGB Alliance case where Kate Harris was crying when being questioned, and the KC treated her really badly? I hope ST is not going to do similar to MK

MK: I didn't write these minutes

From TT

J Were u told this by them?
MK A F in M toilet may have happened but I've never been told this
ST [reads re unisex toilets] Deborah Stratton agrees with MK and ppl of both sexes likely want SSS
MK DS is one of the 3 women who'd come to me 5 yrs earlier but we'd not

As a frequent minute taker, and relatively senior, I was very aware of the power involved in minuting, as people often don't send back amendments. It would have been very easy to spin an agenda without reporting things that hadn't been said, just by shorthand and being selective.

I think they are rarer than rocking horse shit.

Have we ever seen one?

I think this is about whether and to what extent MK was disadvantaged. They have challenge how difficult all this was for her in practice