NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #50

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It will resume again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:

drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 43: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379979-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-43 25 July 2025 to 27 July 2025
Thread 44: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44 25 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 45: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381518-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-45 28 July 2025 to 28 July 2025
Thread 46: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5381640-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-46 28 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 47: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382102-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-47 29 July 2025 to 29 July 2025
Thread 48: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5382317-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-48 29 July 2025 to 31 July 2025
Thread 49: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5383443-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-49 31 July 2025 to 8 August 2025

I am defying the judge.

I'm starting to eat my lunch now.

Take that you ridiculously early lunch-taker.

Yes, this is why the disciplinary outcome found the need for SP to undertake a reflective discussion on her behaviour isn't it? She may have been right but she wasn't KIND. I can't wait for Fife to be made to undertake reflective discussions with umpteen regulators and press once the judgment is handed down.

God, I LOVE how NC has pointed out the personality of DU was on display in court - as proof of his intransigent nature at work.

How domineering he is, and how he attempts to have everything kowtow to him.

French regulations require single sex facilities. That guy on Twitter was talking nonsense hoping no one knew better
maybe he doesn’t know mumsnet exists 😁

from herald
12:59pm
Ms Cunningham said that NHS Fife's legal team have taken objection with Ms Peggie referring to Dr Upton as a man.
She says tussles about language has featured all through this tribunal, causing a significant amount of time.
A full blown hysteria has erupted, she said.
She asks the tribunal to keep in mind the "bitter hostility" of NHS Fife's legal team.
"There is no reason to doubt Sandie Peggie's credibility but there is a great deal of reason to doubt Dr Upton's credibility," she said.
12:47pm
We're back and Naomi Cunningham has said that it is "inconceivable" that employment judge Sandy Kemp should decide Dr Upton had a right to use the women's changing facilities.

From TT

C says this is result of manifesting her sex realist beliefs. R Says hasn't done this, at same time tried to stop her manifesting/talking lang c her beliefs. Ask tribunal to keep in mind hostility of R to C because of her GC beliefs. You have seen that prejudice through R witnesses and it's counsel.

NC Chromosome q. C says didn't ask. No reason to doubt C credibility but much reason to doubt DU creditability. But even if SP had asked, et Lottie Miles said nothing offensive. Just a q about genitals. Pls look at judgement in Higgs which set out

I’ll see what I can do, but may be a slight delay in TT updates

"No reason to doubt C credibility but much reason to doubt DU creditability."

I really hope that we get a bit more into this, particularly the not so contemporaneous after all notes

You're doing a grand job, MyrtleLion. I can never get Tweets to appear in the right order on X so I miss stuff - usually the stuff I couldn't quite hear on the feed, of course! Thanks so much.

I have managed to get myself kicked out of remote observation (didn't notice charger was unplugged til too late)

thanks to all posting tt and herald updates.

Click show thread and it sorts it.

from herald
1:02pm
If someone insists someone that is plainly counterfactual, it is fair to point to the facts that refute that claim.
That is the argument on Naomi Cunningham, who says it can be no wonder that Ms Peggie rejected Dr Upton's claim that the medic is a woman and therefore could use the female changing rooms.

THIS ISN'T A RABBIT.

OK I'm dead 😂😂😂

If we are talking t shirts, I would like one that says
NC - the answer is no.

NC:
She was simply facing Pete

My very Francophile husband (usually a Staunch Ally) sometimes makes this claim. I have to wonder how he would know how French women feel about mixed sex toilets. It's like TW claiming that women in ladies' bogs never confront them so that means it must be OK.

😂

from herald
1:03pm
Ms Cunningham is talking about Ms Peggie's sex-realist beliefs and the debate over language in the tribunal.
She argues that what was really objected to was not what Ms Peggie said in the changing room — about chromosomes and prisons — or the manner in which she said it, "it was the fact that she stood her ground on finding a man who identified as a woman in the women's changing group and said, You shouldn't be here. You're making me uncomfortable."
Ms Cunningham says Dr Upton is a man, and if Ms Peggie "can't be allowed to speak that simple truth without being condemned, or without it being condemned, if she can't manifest her protective beneath at all, it's a hang your clothes on hickory bush, but don't go near water situation."

Ah, ok - will try that.

She's done with Higgs onto individual credibility, will take them quite fast

Arrogant, petty, pain in the arse wee man.

Thinks he's the cleverest person in the room despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

From TT

lang usage. Even if you think SP did make prison comment - SP said she didn't refer to a convicted rapist - but even if you think she said this, it was towards end of conversation when DU was insisting he was a woman.

SP needed to escalate her argument to persuade him that she was really upset by him and it was on this basis. Re chromosome q - no good reason for you to think she said it, but even if she did - if someone says this isn't a rabbit while holding up a rabbit, it's okay to draw attention to its long ears and teeth -

Racism attempt first

can I also buy a "I heart NC" t-shirt anywhere....

or maybe one of her holding up a rabbit....(maybe chatgpt will make one)

(I am not sure how accurate the herald summaries above are - suggest check TT!)
from herald
1:05pm
Ms Cunningham says that Sandie Peggie was facing a man where no man should be.
"Dr Upton is male, is bigger than the claimant and higher up [in NHS Fife]. It is wholly reasonable for her to be frightened and angry."